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    Monday, February 5, 2018

    Financial Independence The second annual FI survey is here!

    Financial Independence The second annual FI survey is here!


    The second annual FI survey is here!

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 05:39 AM PST

    Hi, everybody. Posting this on behalf of /u/melonbalon and the entire FI survey team so we can sticky it. The team has put in a lot of work ensuring we get end data that's highly accurate and useful. The link to the survey's at the bottom; please read the text below before you get started.


    It's that time again, the second "annual" R/FI survey is here!

    For those who are new, last year we got curious about ourselves and decided to put together a survey to learn more about our fellow FIers. This year's survey is a new and improved iteration of last year's, with feedback incorporated from last years' respondents.

    A couple notes before anyone complains… *The political party list for the United States is based on the official list of political parties. Don't shoot the messenger and just be happy it's less confusing than last year's political question turned out to be.

    *The survey asks what type of FI you consider yourself to be seeking (Lean, Coast, Fat). It intentionally does not define those terms. The survey results will be used to define those terms, assuming the results have some level of consistency.

    *Last year a lot of people said they weren't sure what time period to enter their budget for, which is why the survey is being released in February, after the end of the year. Rather than a budget, it requests your 2017 expenditures.

    And now for the instructions, which are also found on the first section of the survey but are reiterated here for convenience.

    *Remember that personal finance is personal. Enter your numbers as you interpret them, personally. If you really get stuck, the survey team (aka /u/melonbalon) will be watching the posting thread and answering interpretation questions as able. I highly recommend you skim each section asking for numbers before you enter yours, to see into which categories you will put your amounts. Because personal finance is personal, some buckets may not be precisely consistent with your personal buckets.

    *The survey is long, and asks for a lot of information. You can skip to the end to submit, which will then provide you a custom link to come back to your answers and edit them. The survey will be available for the entire month of February.

    *Enter dollar amounts as a whole number, appropriately rounded. E.G. $32,594.56 is entered as 32595, with no commas.

    *Enter percentages as a number, e.g. 4% is entered as 4, 20% is entered as 20, 33.5% is entered as 33.5, etc. Fields for percentages will accept a decimal number.

    *Symbols for dollars ($) and percentages (%) are not needed.

    *Each question begins with an alphanumeric designation (e.g. A1, C3, F6). At the end of the survey, you will be asked for any comments on the survey. If you had issues with a question, please refer to it in your comments by the alphanumeric designation.

    *The alphanumeric codes on the questions will skip letters and/or numbers, this is perfectly normal and no cause for concern. Numbering being off does not mean the survey is broken, it is expected behavior.

    *The survey asks how many people contribute to your household finances, and thereafter your responses should include all assets, debt, etc. belonging to those people. You determine the number of people who contribute to your finances.

    *This survey asks for a lot of numbers. To completely fill it out, you will need to have the values of your investments, expenses, debt, and assets at hand, plus your 2017 expenditures, planned retirement withdrawals, and planned retirement expenditures.

    *Almost all questions are skippable; if a question does not apply to you or you haven't yet determined the answer, skip it.

    And now, for the survey: https://goo.gl/forms/s0v6QFYWgLXMzDQx2

    For the curious, here's the link to last year's survey results.

    Edit: Oh, hey…one more thing. Last year somebody gilded the survey announcement instead of the people who actually put together the survey. To anyone who's so inclined, please gild /u/melonbalon or ask for a designee. Thanks again!

    submitted by /u/ER10years_throwaway
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    FI Fans: What is your honest reaction to today's stock market volatility?

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 01:22 PM PST

    We all talk a good game, but today's (1,175.21 point) drop in the Dow Jones likely gets your attention. I'd like to hear your status (retired or not) and your high level investment allocation (stocks, bonds, real estate, other) and your reaction along with any steps you plan to take (or avoid) as a result of the last couple of days of stock market volatility.

    submitted by /u/FIREoManiac
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    Money = Freedom = Equanimity

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 05:56 AM PST

    Current age = 55.5. Total assets = 1.4m
    (including 900+k in 401k plan I discussed in a previous post that generated a high number of responses).

    My company practices so-called forced ranking,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality_curve
    which I despise as grossly political and unfair.

    In years past, I had some anxiety about review season and whether I would be reviewed fairly (usually) or end up taking my turn at the shit end of the bell curve (since this happened one time).
    But this year I am totally cool. If I get evaluated fairly and get the bonus I have earned (the most likely outcome), I will stick around.
    If I get force-ranked down to the bottom of the curve, then I am so sorry I wasn't able to meet your expectations and it's not you, it's me and two weeks (bitch).

    So rather than some stress/worry, I am content and at peace with whatever comes up.

    submitted by /u/zackenrollertaway
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    Take the Lump or Pension - need words of wisdom

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 12:16 PM PST

    Need to decide by 2/19 - Take $112,451 lump now and roll into my existing Vanguard IRA (1.7M now) or $774.24 monthly until I die. What I can't figure is how much the lump will grow if invested conservatively (I'm too heavy on stocks in current IRA) or how much my RMD would be for the lump portion in the IRA. This retiring stuff is complicated.

    submitted by /u/eaglesrun
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    Discovering a new hobby that will also help with your FIRE goals.

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 06:15 AM PST

    Everyone on here is always sharing the small ways in which they save extra cash - and there is a lot of great advice. People also express their desires to find new hobbies, or hobbies that can make/save them money.

    Working on your own cars - and this means big or small projects. Cars are a massive expense we all must have, and they depreciate each and every mile we drive them.

    The biggest single expense I've saved myself over the last 10 years, is purchasing two Jeeps for a grand total of $6,000. I've invested in tools, Chilton manuals, repair forums, and even certain sub-reddits rather than eating the cost of labor, or even dishonesty at repair shops.

    Even if you don't have a garage, or even a driveway (I didn't have a garage until this past year) you can do nearly anything and everything if you're motivated. I also find doing repairs on my vehicles can be a great time to drink some cheap beer, find new bands on Spotify, and impress myself with what I am able to accomplish.

    For many people, working on their own cars can be quite intimidating - and I'm sure you'll make plenty of mistakes at first -but you'll be amazed at the money you can save by changing your own oil, rotating tires, checking all fluids, doing your own brakes.....the list can go on and on. You'll find after you've done these small tasks, larger tasks are manageable, and you can buy/keep cars for 200,000 miles and counting.

    Another added bonus of keeping older cars, is you'll find your insurance plummets, and most vehicles hit a bottom dollar value.

    I've always gotten quotes for auto repairs, do the repair myself, and place the labor costs I would have paid out to a shop, in a savings, or IRA account.

    submitted by /u/bendingmarlin69
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    Daily FI discussion thread - February 05, 2018

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 03:10 AM PST

    Please use this thread to have discussions which you don't feel warrant a new post to the sub. While the Rules for posting questions on the basics of personal finance/investing topics are relaxed a little bit here, the rules against memes/spam/self-promotion/excessive rudeness/politics still apply!

    Have a look at the FAQ for this subreddit before posting to see if your question is frequently asked.

    Since this post does tend to get busy, consider sorting the comments by "new" (instead of "best" or "top") to see the newest posts.

    submitted by /u/AutoModerator
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    Starting late, with lots of debt. What to do?

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 07:12 AM PST

    Hi all,

    My wife has some medical issues and can't work. She is expecting our second child. We currently have about 105k in student loans, and owe about 250k on a house that probably worth around 350-375k. Comps between 350k and 400k in the same community that we live in.

    I just got a new job that pays me about $20k more than my previous job (previous 75k, but over 10k out of pocket insurance expenses so about 63k total take-home before tax). New job is 85k, plus a 15k stipend for insurance which more than covers our insurance costs (and gives us maybe an extra $20-$30/mo).

    The 75k job just barely covered our expenses; school for our current kiddo, groceries, mortgage, HOA, etc.

    We have the option to sell our home this summer and move to a smaller town. My parents have a rental house there which we can rent for <$1k/mo. We could probably pay off 90% of those student loans after selling. I also have about 7k in credit card debt and my wife has about 10k in medical debt. If we go down this route, we can pay off our debts within the first year, and start saving for another home (and probably have about 40k saved in 3 years).

    I'm 34, will be 35 this summer. What would you do in my situation?

    submitted by /u/SmokyBearForest
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    For those who FIRED and got an MBA, would you do it again?

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 06:42 AM PST

    Like the title states, I'm wondering if an MBA was worth it for those who FIRED. Did it open the FIRE door(s) for you? I'm (29M) considering getting one and pivoting my career our of tech sales/customer success.

    submitted by /u/BawceHog
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    Can someone please clarify how people trust their life's nest egg with brokerage accounts if SIPC only insures up to $250k/$500k?

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 02:34 PM PST

    Hi all,

    1) There might be an obvious answer, but if Roboadvisors like Wealthfront only insure up to 250K, and brokerages like E-Trade insure up to 500k, how do retirees trust their hard earned nest egg 40 years in the making to these brokerages?

    Do they 'diversify' put them into 8 different brokerages if they wish to retire at $2M? As opposed to just putting it into one brokerage.

    2) SIPC also only insures if the brokerage goes broke. If it's lost with cybertheft (i.e. phishing scam) that's a whole another story.

    Is two factor authentication the only thing really stopping someone from losing their whole nest egg on Wealthfront?

    Thank you guys for clarifying, I couldn't find much about this.

    EDIT: Thank you for the rundown for Question #1 Now I"m more curious about cybertheft from phishing and all. That isn't covered by anything, has this happened to people who've lost their entire fortunes from getting their 2FA bypassed and brokerage account hacked?

    submitted by /u/CompetitiveChance
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    Plan input request - xpost from Leanfire

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 01:05 PM PST

    I'd love some input into our retirement plans.

    The situation: We came to FIRE a little later in life than many, thus our numbers aren't at the levels a lot of folks in this sub shoot for, but I think we're in a good place for a relatively fat LeanFIRE thanks to a teacher pension. Our family consists of my wife and I and two children currently age 2 and 3. We live in Rural Alaska with an annual income of approximately $100,000 between the two of us. We'd like to retire from Alaska and move south in 4.5 more years when I'm 50 and the wife is 44.

    Main income: $3000/month after tax - Alaska teacher pension
    * Includes family medical insurance - Free after 25 years of service
    * Dental, Vision, and Audio insurance - Extra cost included in $3000 figure
    * Mid-level long term care insurance - Extra cost included in $3000 figure

    Other estimated assets at time of retirement - greatly dependent on market:
    * 80k Roth between wife and I
    * 200k Traditional IRAs between wife and I
    * Estimated $125k cash after sale of house
    * $10k emergency fund
    * $30k in each of the kids 527s.
    * 250k Chase Ultimate Rewards points ($2500 travel value)

    The plan: We'd like to move south to be closer to our parents both for the sake of the kid-grandparent relationships, and so we can be around when they start needing help.

    We'd continue to do some paid work while the kids are in school. We'd continue to contribute to retirement accounts with this money. Any additional funds beyond meeting our needs will go in to 527s. We'd also like to save for some family travel both foreign and domestic. I'd love to be able to take a year off when the kids are middle-school aged and do some long-term foreign travel, essentially homeschooling the kids as we travel.

    Investments: My current plan is to keep most of our investments in stock indexes. I know the traditional wisdom is to diversify into bonds as well, but I feel like the pension kind of fills that role for us.

    I know we aren't looking at full retirement since we are planning on still working after leaving Alaska. It's more of a partial retirement with some additional work to fund future needs/travel/527s.

    submitted by /u/LeanThrowaway
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    Weekly FI Monday Milestone thread - February 05, 2018

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 03:10 AM PST

    Please use this thread to post your milestones, humblebrags and status updates which you don't feel warrant a new post to the sub. While the Rules for posting questions on the basics of personal finance/investing topics are relaxed a little bit here, the rules against memes/spam/self-promotion/excessive rudeness/politics still apply!

    Since this post does tend to get busy, consider sorting the comments by "new" (instead of "best" or "top") to see the newest posts.

    submitted by /u/AutoModerator
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    Value of home not included in FI "number", right?

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 09:21 AM PST

    As I look ahead, I would like to achieve two basic things: be FI and own a home. (I'm not certain I need to own a home; it just seems like it would give me more autonomy over where I live).

    Am I right in assuming that when one calculates one's FI number, you don't include the value of the home as part of that wealth?

    Example: You decide your FI number is $1mil. Homes of the sort you want cost about $300k. So, given you've budgeted for the home's property taxes/insurance/maintenance/utils properly, you actually have to acquire about $1.3 mil before you are "done" with your financial aspirations. Right?

    Are there any other FI-related planning or considerations I should be thinking in terms of regarding this issue?

    submitted by /u/IBitAChip
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    on setting a realistic goal

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 12:38 PM PST

    First timer here. Age: 42 Current savings: around 85K USD (invested in different stocks...still in the positive, but just in the past couple of weeks saw about 5K slashed out of it) + 35K USD (invested in cryptos, that is going to shit as well) + around 30K company stock

    Loans: Mortgage, about 200K left, at 1.5% interest. If I sell my apartment right now, I will get roughly 375K, I bought it at around 300, so I have to pay something like .3*75=23K tax, which means, I can get 375-200-23= 152.

    So if I cash out everything right now, I will have roughly: 152+ 85+35+30 = 302K.

    I think I can save around 80k more during the next three years ( from my salary) without being too frugal, or be able to push it to 100-120K if I really push it.

    Is it feasible for me to retire by 45?

    submitted by /u/BlockchainOrDie
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    RE and target date funds?

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 12:33 PM PST

    It seems like everyone over at PF gets a stiffy over target date funds. But for an early retiree, am I correct in believing those don't really make sense? If I'm saving 30% of my income right now, for instance, and am on track to retire in 20 years, but I increase my income or reduce my expenses then I'm set to FIRE in 15 years, a target date isn't going to be flexible enough and I should just manage my own allocation...right? Like, a target date fund is great for your average worker who plans on working until age 65 like everybody else does, yes? Am I missing something?

    submitted by /u/Sub-Surge
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    Have you changed career even if that meant a lower income and delay to FIRE?

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 10:17 AM PST

    I've been working in IT for nearly 20 years. I just can't stand it anymore. I lost the passion. Getting up in the morning to commute to go site in an ugly grey office is getting to be quite a chore.

    I've been toying with the idea of finding a second career. Even if that means losing my high income and delaying my FIRE date. I have no clue at this point what I would do instead. Currently searching for a career counselor to help me with that process.

    Has anyone done that? What was your experience? I sometimes have the impression reaching FIRE without a 6 figures salary would be difficult.

    submitted by /u/id205879
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    Would paying off a rental property or investing money right now be better preparation for a market correction?

    Posted: 05 Feb 2018 08:59 AM PST

    I have a rental property that has $80k owing on the mortgage. We are in the process of selling our primary residence to take advantage of recent gains in property value, and will hopefully have between $125k in cash once that mortgage is paid off. We're renting now, so we won't need to sink that cash into another primary residence. I'm torn about what we can do with that money that will be most helpful for our FIRE goals in the short term and long term. I just started putting money in index funds (RRSP and TFSA accounts) last year, and haven't maxed them out yet, but I can't decide if it's better to pay off the rental mortgage as well or max out the TFSA for the two of us.

    submitted by /u/thriftyinbetweener
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    Negotiating vacation over pay raise

    Posted: 04 Feb 2018 05:30 PM PST

    I am hoping to be looking at a considerable raise in the near future. Given that FIRE has to do for many of us with freedom from work, I am considering if it would be worth it to work less now rather than pocket a raise by asking for more vacation. Currently I get 20 days per year, plus 18 holidays off. At a salary of $75k, a mere 6k pay raise would amount to 20 days of work. Is it correct to think of the "cost" of vacation days and salary increase in such a 1:1 way? Or how much more could you ask for? I imagine you have to consider how management will react since they may want you working harder with the raise being offered.

    Anyone approached this successfully? I have two young daughters who I used to be able to help with more (left the flexibility of academia) and want to be with them while they are still little and cute. But am still FIRE minded and set on saving a fair amount.

    submitted by /u/lassevirensghost
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    Getting started with FIRE - 26-year-old with questions

    Posted: 04 Feb 2018 04:29 PM PST

    Hi there,

    I'm mid-twenties right now, and hope to retire by 35-40. I'm a Canadian, and unsure if I plan to live in the US during retirement. I've just started reading about FIRE and have some general questions.

    Gross annual income:

    • 165k salary
    • 80k public stock (will start receiving Q1 2019)
    • 0-70k in potential bonus

    I live in California so out I'm expecting to have take-home income of around 100k, and 70k in savings after expenses (assuming 0k bonus).

    I have 30k savings in the bank that is not being invested anywhere.

    I contribute 4% of salary to 401k to reach the max of my employer matching (we're switching 401k providers so I'm unsure how good our new one will be).

    Here is what I'm thinking of doing:

    • Move 3-6 months of emergency funds into high-interest account.
    • Setting up a traditional IRA to decrease my tax rate and maxing it out.
    • Move rest into Vanguard funds/ETFs that are recommended for beginners.

    Here are questions I have:

    • Should I max out my 401k instead of putting in just 4% of my salary?
    • If I'm unsure about living in the US long-term, is it still worth maxing out my 401k and IRA?
    • Should I avoid Roth IRA since I have a high income now, and instead just max out a traditional IRA?
    • My income in 2017 was just 40k since I started near the end of the year. Can I still put in money into an IRA for 2017? If so, would it be best to put it into a Roth IRA because I was in a low tax bracket?
    • Does any of my planning require me to be a US resident or citizen?
    submitted by /u/nawtsilk
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