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    We are field staff at the SBA, ask us [almost] anything. small business

    April 29, 2020

    We are field staff at the SBA, ask us [almost] anything. small business

    We are field staff at the SBA, ask us [almost] anything.

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 01:00 PM PDT

    **Edit: I'm signing off for questions for the night folks. Thank you for your time and fantastic questions. I really appreciated it. **

    Hi everyone,

    My name is Noah and I work out of the San Francisco District Office of the U.S. Small Business Administration. Our office has been working closely with business owners and doing our best to manage calls right now. The local offices are very small outreach teams and I spend most of my days right now talking directly with our local business owners about how the shelter-in-place orders are impacting folks.

    Everything from cake shops and hairdressers to tech start-ups and manufacturers come through my (now virtual) door. That's actually normal, even during non-disaster situations! Regardless of industry and stage the uncertainty that folks share with me is universal. We're doing what we can to alleviate some of that, where we can but also be transparent and honest about our own limitations.

    When working with business owners I work really hard to make it clear what's known and what's not known, as well as not provide answers that I can't answer. Sometimes I make mistakes.

    Each morning our team gets incorporates new updates into our discussions as these programs are changing daily right now.

    Here's what I can't do (unfortunately)

    • Give you (specifically) a status update on either your EIDL or PPP application
    • Give you (specifically) a timeline
    • Explain why congress did X or tell you what congress will do
    • Speak for another office (Especially office of disaster assistance processes and procedures, or for the agency as a whole outside of existing guidance.)
    • Tell you what lender to use or endorse any particular lender over another. I also can't solve or answer most questions about why a particular lender is doing x,y,z.
    • Share anything that hasn't been cleared for release.

    Pretty much all of these questions I'm going to refer to my government-assigned work-from-home Bureaucat Nina Zoobie Halloumi.

    The moderators sent me a list of questions consolidated by the community. I'm joined today with a field representative for the Office of Disaster Assistance West Bill Koontz and another district representative in DC David Hincapie. All three of us are field staff, so that means that we work with the public regularly, but also that we're not policy makers.

    We're going to start this off by doing our best to answer the questions consolidated yesterday:

    Program Organization

    * Which programs does SBA oversee and where can we get information about ALL of them, including the less known ones?

    We release a national resource guide that provides an overview of all of our programs. That resource guide doesn't include the PPP or the EIDL advance, since these were just added a few weeks ago. There are ~20-30 programs for business owners through the SBA. They fit into 4 different areas:

    Disaster Contracting Counseling Financing
    Disaster Physical damage Loans 8(a) certification program - qualifying businesses to sole source contracts and more Small Business Development Centers 7(a) (with about 30 different flavors) - working capital loans
    Economic Injury Women Owned Small Business Certification Women's Business Centers 504 - commercial real estate loans
    PPP loan (new) Veteran Owned Small Business Certification Veteran's Business Development Centers Microloans
    Economic Injury Advance (new) Surety Bonds SCORE mentoring SBIR seed grants for new products
    HubZones Procurement Assistance Centers SBIC - equity/venture funding
    Export assistance Centers

    * What is the specific role of the SBA vs. the banks?

    This is a complicated question. The short answer is that it depends on the program. For our larger lending programs, SBA operates essentially as an insurer for loans that are made in accordance with our policies (If a lender agrees to follow our guidelines for a business loan, we will "guarantee" it - meaning that we will pay for a portion of the losses should that loan go bad.) Borrowers pay a packaging fee for our normal guaranteed loans and these fees offset any of the losses in normal times, not taxpayer dollars.

    * Why do the guidelines the SBA is implementing seem to be different from what was described in the law authorizing the programs?

    At a high and very general level I can say that laws and procedures/rules are two different things. The latter will always be more specific and can't conflict with laws. For instance, the Small Business Act is a 300 page law. It rarely gets updated and needs an act of congress to do so. Our standard operating procedures, or rules for implementing for just one element of that act is a 500 page document that goes through a public rulemaking process where comments and feedback must be taken and responded to. It gets updated more often than the law.

    The Bureaucat will answer most of the why questions, except where that reasoning was included in the interim rulemaking.

    * Why did the SBA implement a $1k/employee cap in addition to the $10k cap? On what programs does the number of FTEs limit amounts?

    [Bill]To ensure that the greatest number of applicants can receive assistance. The only other area where the number of FTEs may impact a business owners are where SBA size standards might make an applicant ineligible for our programs.

    PPP/EIDL Specifics

    Loan Organization

    * How do EIDL/PPP loans work together or conflict?

    1. EIDL and PPP loans can't be used for the same expenses.

    2. EIDL advances (which are forgivable) will reduce the amount of forgiveness received under the PPP. This is to avoid duplication of benefits.

    3. Technically an EIDL can be rolled into a PPP. Further guidance may be coming out clarifying the process and conditions under which this can occur.

    4. EIDL loans are broader in what they can be used for. PPP loans are narrower. For that reason we generally suggest that payroll costs be paid with the PPP and other business needs (rent, utilities, inventory, etc) be covered with EIDL loan funds.

    * What is the process flow for the loan/grant programs(apply, approved by SBA, apply at a bank...) or where can we see these flows?

    The simple EIDL process flow is:

    • Apply online at sba.gov --> wait --> Get your advance processed -->wait --> get your loan reviewed and decided upon

    [Bill]The status of a specific application will be available to the applicant when processing of their EIDL is near completion. SBA will provide an email notification inviting the applicant to set up an account electronically. This account will enable applicants to check the status of their application, loan decision, loan amount, sign loan closing documents, schedule disbursement, etc. Again, we appreciate everyone's patience while their applications are being processed.

    We're not going to delve into the details on this because these processes are getting updated and changed constantly to work better. They also haven't been shared even with the field offices in many cases. Any information shared, even from the processing centers, would be out of date quickly or only represent a narrow perspective.

    The PPP has a different process at every bank. It's different at every institution. From an SBA perspective it's a black box on both ends, except where we've made requirements in the application process (such as the information that an application has to collect. That's by design because SBA is not the one originating these loans.

    • [complete the bank process, whatever they've decided to make that look like] --> Lender transmits approval to SBA and gets a loan number -->[finish the bank process, whatever they've decided to make that look like]

    * Does the SBA communicate directly with the businesses seeking these loans? How can we recognize legitimate attempts to communicate with us?

    SBA won't contact a PPP borrower directly. If someone contacts you about a PPP loan and says they're from the SBA please report this to our Office of Inspector General. They released a special FAQ on Scams and Frauds earlier this month. If you haven't applied for an EIDL and you get contacted by someone from the SBA telling you about it you should suspect a scam or fraud as well. Once you've applied for EIDL, you may be contacted by an office of disaster assistance loan officer.

    Loans and forgiveness

    * Which loans get forgiveness, which loans are automatic, which require proof, how can we find the restrictions? What actual guarantees are there that loans will be forgiven if the rules are followed? Will the rules still be subject to change after the loans are made?'

    Only PPP loans and EIDL advances get forgiveness. EIDL advance forgiveness is automatic. PPP forgiveness must be applied to and the details on that process have yet to be released. Questions about the future I'm delegating to the bureaucat

    * Are there restrictions on how payrolls are paid for programs that require documentation of payment of payroll for forgiveness? (i.e. changing employee, emphasizing different operations, firing/hiring but attaining a particular payroll overall

    This question would only apply to the PPP. The answer is yes, maybe and that the detailed rules on the forgiveness portion of the PPP has yet to be released. bureaucat

    * How does forgiveness work if business conditions change like the company is forced into bankruptcy, employees refuse to return to work or the government orders the business to be shut down for more than 8 weeks?

    1. If you take the funds out and declare bankruptcy and don't get the forgiveness the PPP will act like any other federally funded loan.
    2. If employees don't return to work you may hire others to replace them or receive forgiveness proportionally to what you are able to spend on payroll costs (the details on how this is calculated have not yet been released). You can also return the funds that you weren't able to use. There are no pre-payment penalties for the PPP.
    3. PPP funds are expected to be paid towards payroll costs even if the business is shut down. There is no requirement that the business be in operation. Some business owners have taken the opportunity to find other work that can be done remotely for their employees, some are simply paying even though noone is working, some are having employees self-study/develop new skills. There are a lot of options here.

    * Why are loans set up so PPP forgiveness only applies if EIDL is not used for payroll even after PPP is exhausted paying for payroll?

    1. They aren't? You can use EIDL for payroll costs, but you should document very clearly which funds (PPP or EIDL) are going towards which pay periods. Many business owners are just keeping the two totally separate to make for cleaner and easier bookkeeping.

    * Why can the self-employed apply for 2.5 months of income but only 8 weeks is forgivable?

    This was a decision by the administrator in consultation with the Treasury. Page 12 of the Interim Final Rule lays out the reasoning:

    • "This is most consistent with the structure of the Act and its overarching focus on keeping workers paid, and will prevent windfalls that Congress did not intend."
    • " This is because many self-employed individuals have few of the overhead expenses that qualify for forgiveness under the Act. For example, many such individuals operate out of either their homes, vehicles, or sheds and thus do not incur qualifying mortgage interest, rent, or utility payments. As a result, most of their receipts will constitute net income. Allowing such a self employed individual to treat the full amount of a PPP loan as net income would result in a windfall."

    Obtaining approvals

    * Why are different banks requiring different documentation between what financial companies require for documentation?

    The short answer is because they have the discretion to do so. Every lender needs to exercise due diligence and make an effort to verify payroll costs. Among 5,000+ lenders you're going to see the full spectrum of approaches here.

    * How much does creditworthiness or credit score matter for these loans?

    PPP: Depends on the lender. EIDL: It is a factor.

    * What happens if multiple applications (in good faith) are submitted to multiple lenders?

    SBA's loan system will only allow for a single application to be submitted on behalf of a borrower. The first borrower to submit will lock-out all other submitters. I've dealt with a number of business owners who pursued this strategy. There are upsides and downsides.

    * Is all hope lost if an application for EIDL rejected for errors? Do they just get stuck?

    [ODA response needed]

    Loan status

    * Where can businesses go to find their status with the SBA (i.e. confirmation numbers, status, etc)?

    For the PPP, they need to go to their lender. We can only see if an approval exists. For the EIDL they need to go to the 1-800 number. ((800) 659-2955)

    * Do you have any information about the order of EIDL grant processing?

    [Bill]We are processing disaster loan applications and Advances on a first-come, first serve basis as fast as we can.

    * If someone has an approval number but their bank does not act what options do they have besides waiting?

    Banks were instructed that the expectation for PPP is that they disburse funds within 10 calendar days from approval. SBA has the authority to cancel an approval if that hasn't happened. That's a punishment to the lender though. We can't force a lender to disburse their own funds to an applicant.

    * Can SBA loan confirmation numbers be transferred away from lenders who are failing to fund in a timely way?

    No.

    * Do the confirmation numbers have a structure (region, number in line, etc)?

    I'd advise against numerology. I'm not aware of a specific structure with much meaningful information and Application numbers are assigned as applications are received.

    SBA Structure

    * What are tiers 1, 2, and 3 on the SBA helpline and what questions can they each answer?

    [Bill] Our customer call center has not provided ODA field office staff members any information about Tiers 1, 2 or 3. As with any operation, there are supervisors in the call center with oversight responsibility and more authority than others.

    * Within the SBA, what is the role of the ODA (Office of Disaster Assistance)? What sub-organizations should we be aware of relating to this pandemic?

    [Bill] The Office of Disaster Assistance's mission is to provide low interest disaster loans to businesses of all sizes, private non-profit organizations, homeowners, and renters to repair or replace real estate, personal property, machinery & equipment, inventory and business assets that have been damaged or destroyed in a declared disaster. ODA has their own field offices, but not sub-organizations.

    * Does the SBA outsource operations? Which ones and to whom?

    [Bill]Normally, no. For the COVID19 response, SBA's ODA established a public/private relationship with an unnamed outside vendor to process COVID19 loans.

    Communication

    * How can we best recognize solicitation attempts by financial firms without proper affiliation to the SBA or access to the programs?

    There are a few resources: 1. Check the Find a Lender tool if they have a physical location near you 2. Ask your local SBA district office 3. See if their name showed up on this list of institutions that made loans in Phase 1.

    This can be legitimately difficult overall though because there are sometimes intermediaries that authorized lenders will allow to package loan applications for them. If a website has a "banking partners" section on their website they're usually an intermediary or a packager. You can do detective work using tools put out by the Treasury. A regulated bank will always have that information in the footer of their website with a number that you can independently verify at their regulator's website. For intermediaries, you just have to go off of reviews online.

    * Customer service reps have been giving out unhelpful or confusing information. What processes are being put in place to make sure they can give us the accurate information we need?

    [Bill]Our field office staff are sharing any reports we receive of unhelpful or confusing comments made by employees in SBA's call centers. SBA will release any customer service representative who is unable to properly perform their job.

    * Outside of SBA.gov, what are the routes the SBA uses to talk to us? Where can we see a daily or weekly briefing?

    Folks can sign up for national updates here, or also sign up directly for smaller, more specific email distribution lists here. You can also view our events page, where local offices and our non-profit partners are holding hundreds of webinars on a variety of topics every month.

    * How can we see the total amount of loans made?

    Check our Freedom of Information page. New reports and data get published there.

    * What communications should small businesses expect as they go through the process, including about errors, denials, progress or acceptance? (Might be integrated with another question)

    [Bill] The status of individual applications will be available to the applicant when processing of their EIDL is near completion. SBA will provide an email notification inviting the applicant to set up an account electronically. This account will enable applicants to check the status of their application, loan decision, loan amount, sign loan closing documents, schedule disbursement, etc. Again, we appreciate everyone's patience while their applications are being processed. Regarding files that are suspended or delayed due to errors or denials, our field office staff have not yet been informed how files in this category are being handled or when to expect resolutions.

    Public Relations

    * What does the SBA think of the job they have been doing so far?

    bureaucat

    That's a response I'll leave to our national press release. SBA isn't one thing.

    * Which businesses or industries does the SBA think need help most? Does size (smaller than "small") matter?

    SBA exists to help all small businesses. Some industries are much more represented than others (there are just more food service and construction firms than clog manufacturers out there.)

    The federal definitions of "small" are often contentious, but the SBA definitions are often pointed to as more comprehensive definitions because we make an attempt to create a different definition for every single industry. You can use this tool or look at the table at the bottom of this page. The standards are designed to be broadly inclusive and for most of our programs are not the sole item used to determine eligibility.

    My experience is that for our regular lending and counselling programs, business owners usually grow out of them before they become ineligible(they hire their own consultants or find they can get better terms than an SBA loan.) I don't work as much on the contracting side of things, but I think the size standards are more frequently needing to be evaluated in those programs.

    * What are the most common questions you have been answering?

    • Status updates of course make up about 40% of my day. That's a hard question because our local office isn't in a position to help most of the time.

    • Not so much a question, but I spend a lot of time clarifying misinformation. I.E. "the bank says SBA rejected me" or "why does SBA require my bank do X."

    • Also not a question, but I spend a lot of time collecting stories. Even in non-disaster times business owners love to talk about their business because its what they're passionate about and they've almost always invested an incredible amount of blood, sweat, and tears into their businesses. A lot of folks just want to share, and our office listens. Oftentimes I hear their stories and I know a local non-profit or resource that specializes in serving that need. We don't do much for instance with legal advice, lease or rental agreements, but I am getting a lot of questions about how to manage relationships and agreements with commercial landlords right now.

    Additional questions

    * Are there limitations on funding foreign owned but otherwise US companies built into the programs?

    For the PPP technically the program can accept these applications so long as the business is a US operated business. It is overall more difficult to document and submit these in a way that is acceptable to SBA systems though. A lender has to be willing to slow down and work closely with the borrower and SBA to get it submitted. For all of the other SBA programs, a business needs to be majority owned by a US citizen or legal permanent resident to qualify.

    * Some applications made 3/29 and 3/30 seem to be stuck in credit pull. Is there any plan for these? (Might be integrated with another question)

    [Bill]We in the field offices have not yet been informed specifically how these files will be handled, or when. Any business that applied for a Coronavirus (COVID-19) SBA Economic Injury Disaster Loan (EIDL) prior to the release of SBA's new streamlined application the week ending March 29, must reapply using SBA's streamlined online application (in SBA's new loan processing system) available at www.sba.gov. If a business doesn't have an application number or received one that begins with a "2", they must reapply under SBA's new processing system. SBA is presently contacting everyone who applied through the old system, and asking them to reapply at https://covid19relief.sba.gov/ when applications re-open. If a business owner has an application or conformation number that begins with a "3", they don't need to do anything – their application is in process in the new system.

    submitted by /u/Noah_SBA
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    I called the SBA and before the lady answered I heard “Cone, McNuggets & 2 Sweet and Sour sauce”! ������‍♀️ Then the call hung up!

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 06:42 PM PDT

    I was waiting to see if the machine was down! Lol

    submitted by /u/ilovep2019
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    All loans over $2m will get a full audit before funds are forgiven

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 07:42 AM PDT

    According to Mnuchin here, any loans above $2m will get fully audited before being forgiven. It's a start but from what I can tell, it will turn a once-in-a-lifetime windfall into a once-in-a-lifetime loan for many companies. And it still doesn't free up any additional funds now when they are most needed.

    submitted by /u/Creamy_Chunky_Barf
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    I work on the automation team at a mid sized bank that ended up placing in the top 25 as far as SBA loan approval amount.

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 09:07 PM PDT

    I won't disclose any names or specific numbers, but I wanted to give you all some information you probably won't be seeing from other banks.

    If you are with a bigger bank and are concerned about your application getting a number from the SBA consider submitting an application through a mid tier bank.

    I don't even know where to begin, but i'll just start pouring out my thoughts here. I'm sure a lot of you are concerned about getting a loan, and are upset about your bank being slow about it. I can attest to the fact that that is not the case. We haven't taken a weekend or worked less than 16 hours a day since the beginning of this whole fiasco, even on Easter Sunday most of us put in 6-8 hours.That being said, the biggest hangup of this entire process is how incredibly inept the SBA has been at handling the situation. (Sorry to everyone who works there, you are all rockstars, but whoever is calling the shots is making this so much harder than it needs to be) I wish i could tell you how many times they have changed the requirements, changed the process, broken and 'updated' their website and just this week, flat out banned the use of RPA (automation) to submit loans into ETran. I've legitimately forgotten the number.

    If you are wondering about the status of your loan, there is a good chance it is waiting to go through ETran. With the huge increase in traffic on this round 2 of funding there site has been mostly unresponsive. On a normal day with the site working as intended it can take a human user up to 30 minutes to enter in 1 loan. Our bots have the process down to a little under 2 minutes to receive a SBA loan number and using the API we can get hundreds of successes per minute.That being said, with ETran being down, the use of RPA being banned, and EVERYTHING limited to 350 loans an hour we are severely handicapped in our ability to secure your funds. Every hour we run our API for around 5 minutes and then go back to working on our internal system to make sure no loans are getting left behind.

    The next biggest hangup to getting your SBA funds secured is going to be uncleaned data. I'm sure in the rush to finish the application a lot of you maybe guessed on a few things, but in some cases being a single digit off can get your loan put on the back-burner for quite a while. As each bank is different I can't speak to how you can review your application, but if you can I would recommend doing it. If you're in the process of filling out an application PLEASE pay attention to your Amount Requested and NAICS code. Make sure you did your math right. If you need help knowing what your NAICS code is you can look it up here. https://www.naics.com/search/ Initially about 40% of all applications had invalid NAICS codes.

    If your loan was part of the 'bulk upload via XML' there is not a lot that your bank can do anymore. It's in the hands of the SBA at this point and according to this article it might be a while before your loan is processed.

    And if you are part of the lucky crowd that DOES have an SBA loan number and are just waiting for the funding to come, we are working on it! Again, I can't speak for other banks, but we have already automated the funding portion and have paid out multiple billions already. There's a lot of negative press around this part, but I would say don't believe it, and keep your head up. Banks have been funding these loans literally since day 1. I don't have specific numbers but a very very very small percentage of these loans are actually in the million+ category. The lion's share are for little guys.

    If you have any questions I'll do my best to answer them! I obviously won't have specifics for your loan but I've been pretty heavily involved in the technical side of things and can clarify anything that I hastily typed out above.

    TLDR: There's a lot of things banks are doing to make sure you get the funds you need to keep your head above water! Don't give up hope or buy into the negative press the PPP is getting!

    Edit for spacing

    submitted by /u/AblePickle
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    PPP approved!

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 11:35 PM PDT

    It's 10:30 Pm and I just received an email from my bank saying our PPP application was accepted. I am overwhelmed by this news. It's hard to even type this with the excitement, gratitude, relief and the passing of a massive anxiety of what was to come of we didn't get this.

    The bank who helped us get approved wasn't our traditional business bank who we originally applied through (chase) but a small local bank who reached out to us and offered their services. I am in their debt.

    An unreal series of events. Regardless, I feel motivated more than ever to help other small local businesses in my area. If anyone is in the San Diego area and needs support of any kind, please feel free to DM me. If you need guidance on sba info, grants, loans, accounting, a new website, marketing materials or simply new clients /customers...whatever. DM me.

    With everything in the news about where the SBA funds were ending up, it was extremely frustrating and nerve racking. I empathize for others trying to piece it together.

    Good luck and don't hesitate to ask!

    submitted by /u/MrGutierrez
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    Im panicking

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 09:32 PM PDT

    I don't think we are going to get the PPP loan, my boss/father is in the hospital for chemo/colon surgery complications, and I'm about to have to close down. I hate my father for this because I said we needed to lower pay earlier, at the start but he was more concerned about "if we do that the employees with leave"

    Now we have no money. This, maybe next week, are probably our last week's. We invested all our money into advancing the company, moving forward, and now as it was finally picking up a virus killed us. At this point I don't even know if we'd be able to recover anyway. Instead of paying our sellers we've paid our employees.

    I don't know what to do. I just want to close down, file for bankruptcy and die. I've failed. I've failed everyone who works for the company and I've failed my son. I feel disgusting because sometimes I hope my father passes so he won't see me or his company fail because he's worked 20 years to bring this company up and one badly timed investment into branching off killed us with a virus. I have anxiety everyday because of this. Im just so tired.

    submitted by /u/comethobnob
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    Math on PPP Forgiveness Doesn't Make Sense - Sole Prop / Self Employed

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 06:41 PM PDT

    I have read the Treasury documentation on the PPP program forgiveness and the math isn't quite making sense to me. Using their guidance, I should pay myself 8/52 of my annual income from my 2019 Schedule C. But if you add that up, it only gets you to about 74% of the total loan. Under the terms of the forgiveness language, the business needs to spend at least 75% of the PPP loan on "payroll" in order to receive forgiveness.

    If we aren't supposed to pay ourselves more than 8 weeks worth of pay, how are we supposed to get forgiveness since we cannot get over the 75% threshold?

    See pages 11 and 12 of the document for details:

    https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/Interim-Final-Rule-Additional-Eligibility-Criteria-and-Requirements-for-Certain-Pledges-of-Loans.pdf

    submitted by /u/bagelman5000
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    PPP and EIDL Approved!

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 02:45 PM PDT

    Early today I was happy to report that my EIDL was approved and obligating. Just now I received the amazing news that we got a PPP E-Trans number.

    It feels like a huge weight off my shoulders but, more than anything I found this sub to be a major place of support and a wealth of information and was extremely helpful for managing the anxiety that this situation has created.

    I wish everyone else here the best possible outcomes and hopefully in a few months our businesses will be bouncing back to better than ever with people anxious to spend money again and get out of their houses.

    For the record - I used a smaller regional bank for PPP that another franchisee recommended after I missed out on first round funding with Wells Fargo.

    submitted by /u/LOL_FACE_69
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    Thanks r/small business posters! Received PPP bc of lessons learned here!

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 10:31 PM PDT

    Had I not found this group and reddit, I'm absolutely sure I would still be waiting in vain for BofA to actually procure a PPP for me and for my husband as well! We are both S Corp s and we are our only employees. My company, design consulting with retail manufacturers, and his in manufacturing sales, have both used BofA for all of our business and personal joint and credit cards for over 15 years. Husband applied 4/3 9:00 am with BofA with all documents ready. Received his Intralinks the following day 4/4. As I was shut out for the first day with no business lending from BodA, applied to United Bank (which at the time said it would take any clients even out of state no account). Second day able to apply at BofA as requirements changed and received Intralinks on the 8th. Both my husband and I received the strange call as all did from BofA to ask if all papers uploaded that Friday. So, with that, I had hope! Then, the following week, radio silence from BofA for us both, followed by my despair and anger. After reading how many here found luck with PayPal, and despite feeling queasy about multiple apps at the time, I applied with PayPall, Lendio and Kabbage on 4/21 as funds were running out. The next day Pay pal sent me documents to sign. My husband, who had great faith in his 4/3 timing, and the expectation of "first come first served" from BofA, ( yeah right!) came to his senses and also applied through a small NJ bank accepting from the business association he belongs to, and to PayPal and Lendio the following day. Coincidentally , that small regional NJ bank was working with PayPal and actually called me (could not believe I was talking to a real live person about my PPP!) 4/23 and let me know that I needed to open a bank account to receive the loan payment when the second round is funded as Pay Pal had it ready for submission to the SBA. Hope again! SBA portal opens Monday and my husband receives SBA # yesterday, and I received mine today! Had I not been reading through all of your trials and tribulations, I would still be waiting for BofA to continue to jerk me and my husband around unaware of how the Hunger Games of the PPP is played. So, my advice? PayPal all the way, and as soon as you can! BTW...First United decided not to take OOS and both Lendio and Kabbage not helpful at all. I truly thank the collective for the very insightful, amusing at times. and incredibly helpful information! It has made an enormous difference for both my husband and I! I hope you ALL receive funding. Stay strong and will be cheering you all on here. Oh, and BofA? You can kiss our A$&.! Have a very nice small NJ bank that actually wants our business and will be moving there the first chance we can. And then the second thing we're gonna do is lock down our credit...scary to think of all of the personal data out there! Be safe my friends!

    submitted by /u/kdukeah
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    FINALLY!!!! PPP APPROVED!!!

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 09:20 AM PDT

    I just got a letter from my banker and I received an ETRAN number from the SBA!!! She told me that she will now review the funds and deposit them into my account!!!!!

    submitted by /u/jorichbeauty
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    I wish we had real answers for EIDL so we don't have to be tethered to our email

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 07:34 PM PDT

    Spend all day and night refreshing. Couldn't we just know if there is a certain time that an email won't be sent? Or better yet a real status of whats going on. This "be patient" business being relayed to us via SBA reps is bullshit.

    submitted by /u/ixennn
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    BoA sent the SBA 184K applications, but only 1000 were approved so far! [4/28/ 7 PM EDT]

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 04:35 PM PDT

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/business/bank-of-america-ppp-sba/index.html

    Bank of America sent 184,000 Payroll Protection Applications to the Small Business Administration on behalf of clients, according to a letter the bank shared with CNN Business.

    Yet the SBA has only approved 1,000 of those loans so far, according to a bank spokesperson who declined to provide any further comment on the rate of approval.

    submitted by /u/BlizzardBlind
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    28 days later..

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 08:14 PM PDT

    and nothing from PPP or EIDL. Time to close the business for good. So much for the American dream.

    Thanks for forcing us to close and provide us with false hopes of help.

    Soup kitchen here I come.

    submitted by /u/chyn3s3boi
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    PayPal PPP: If your application is in limbo, there is a backdoor method to check your status inside their system. You can also find the contact information (Email and Direct Phone Number) for your specific loan officer.

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 01:30 PM PDT

    This will be particularly helpful for those who are experiencing the blank/no info portal issue or anyone who can't get through to someone on the phone. I take no credit for this, the genius who discovered it is /u/RPat29, I am simply broadcasting the method since some people follow my posts.

    Note: You should be at least slightly tech savy to attempt this.

    Step 1. Login to Loanbuilder

    Step 2. Open Chrome dev tools (F12)

    Step 3. Go to Network tab, click on the text field labeled filter and type "opportunities" without the quotes

    Step 4. Refresh the page

    Step 5. Click opportunities in left window. On the right, you will see an entry that represents your application. You will see more than one listed here if you have applied multiple times even under different email addresses. Open the tabs to see data. You can see various status including stageName which shows where you are in the process. If you see "closed lost" it means they denied you or that particular application at least.

    Step 6. Click "business funding experts" on left window. On the right you will see the contact info for your loan officer including their direct extension and email.

    You can also play around in the stipulations tab on the left to see whats in there. Good luck

    EDIT: Finding contact info no longer seems to work. Looks like they discovered this back door and are blocking it. Hey PayPal are you reading this thread?

    submitted by /u/cue378
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    Still no EIDL portal, and my app number was in the 300K's. Anyone else in this boat?

    Posted: 29 Apr 2020 02:43 AM PDT

    I'm seeing daily posts about people getting the EIDL. I'm wondering if I have just been left by the wayside. I received the $1K advance, and tier 2 even was able to tell me my "proposed" loan amount. But still no portal email, nearly 2 weeks later. Is anyone else in this same boat? The two email lists I'm listed on through SBA are: COVID-19 Economic Injury Disaster Loan applicants and EIDL Full List. So I don't seem to have been denied, but rather...just skipped.

    submitted by /u/awesomedude2016_2016
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    PPP Finally Approved!!

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 09:21 PM PDT

    Going to the bank tomorrow to sign some additional paperwork and the funds will be deposited by the end of the week. Local banks are literally so much easier to work with and I'm so glad I worked with them rather than Chase and Wells Fargo. My gas station can finally thrive now :)

    submitted by /u/BigGucciSosa8
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    Finally magic words - "Just received your SBA loan number"

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 08:52 PM PDT

    Applied with Chase 4/6 - Got Screwed.

    Lendio 4/19 - They let me down

    Paypal - 4/19 - No clue whats up with them

    Divvy/Crossriver - 4/20 - They had no clue how to process my app. We went in circles. I asked them to cancel.

    Bluevine - 4/20 - We went in circles. I asked them to cancel.

    Small Bank - Asked Loan officer to process on 4/20

    4/21 - the processor asked two documents. Signed app etc.

    4/22 I got confirmation I am staged to be submitted.

    4/28 - night 8:30 pm (Must be 10:30 for her). send me magic words

    ​

    "Just Received your Loan number". Since they do lot of SBA (She is handling SBA loan for my other business).Feel I am in good hands.

    They told me they plan to open a separate checking account in my company name and thats where the funds would go.

    submitted by /u/csltnt
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    PPP approved by small local bank!

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 06:45 PM PDT

    Just thought I would share my experience. Chase Bank has had our application since April 13th. We were notified we made it to Stage 3. Our business banker has not returned my call or emails. Started getting nervous having all our eggs in one basket so Sunday night I applied with Kabbage and Bluevine. Have not heard a thing from Kabbage. Bluevine emailed back to say we qualified and our app was submitted for processing to SBA and that it could take 8 days to review. Monday morning I called a local small bank (Washington Trust in Oregon) and submitted our app that morning. It was the only local bank I could find still accepting applications this late. I found them on the SBA lender list on their site. Just found out this afternoon it was accepted by SBA and we have an ETRAN number! Another vote for local small banks.

    submitted by /u/AudBon
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    EIDL grant

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 08:59 PM PDT

    Applied 3/30

    Credit pull 4/20

    Till date no grant no portal

    Called them they said a loan officer is processing, will email you.

    Biz bank in biz name.

    I also applied again on 4/3 for another business, do you think that would have effected it? Total of 11 employees (4 in first 7 in second )

    submitted by /u/unknowntraveller87
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    PPP / EIDL applicants and borrowers: please read the contract you are signing

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 09:56 AM PDT

    Hi.

    I have been lurking here for a while during the PPP/EIDL crunch everyone is experiencing.

    Many posts ask about things which demonstrate the person posting has not read what he/she signed. As a CTO for a lender (not one involved in SBA loans / PPP, but one who understands lending) please let me underscore how very important it is that you read what you agree to when borrowing money.

    I know - sounds obvious. But I see stats regularly that have always concerned me - people who really want their money and just accept terms and conditions or rapidly sign each yellow spot in Docusign.

    PPP and EIDL have very lenient terms - PPPs forgiveness provisions are unprecedented and I hope everyone who can gets forgiveness. But if you don't read what you signed and aren't organized you may not get the forgiveness you are otherwise entitled to.

    Do you know who reads those documents? Compliance officers, executives of lenders and lawyers. With the visibility of PPP, journalists and politicians will be reading them too. Why do I mention this? People are rightly angered by public companies and pro sports franchises taking money intended for the little guy. But the follow-on story in a few months will be the guys who scammed the system and landed as much free money as they could while not suffering an economic loss. What will those stories cause? It will cause the regulators (the SBA and Treasury, in this case) to audit. I won't speculate here on the tools they will use and the queries they will run but I can assure you that people who made honest mistakes will get snared in that dragnet.

    So please - read the terms. Plan your spending. Write down what you are doing and why so your understanding of the rules at the time you acted is documented. Keep that record in case someone does call in the months ahead.

    Don't be scared or feel paralized - these are emergency funds and they are meant to be spent. Just write down why you did what you did after first reading the rules. People like you using these funds as intended in good faith won't be harmed should those audits come. But cover yourself. Just read the contract and perform to its terms.

    Best of luck and God bless all who are struggling through this.

    submitted by /u/readthecontract
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    PPP approved with Bluevine/Cross River via Lendio - timeline.

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 08:18 PM PDT

    We applied as a Sole Prop to Lendio during the first round of the PPP, but bailed out of the application after reading some negative feedback on Reddit and getting uncomfortable with the amount of information I was giving this company I had never heard of. We went with Divvy, and ended up with an application that wouldnt reopen due to an error in their UI. We missed out on round 1. Last week we went in and completed the Lendio application as a hail mary, along with Paypal and Kabbage (mainly thanks to the advice on here)

    Monday 27th -

    1AM - EST we were emailed by Lendio and told to apply directly to Bluevine. It was in our spam folder. It turned out that this was a full new application with Bluevine, it didnt appear that Lendio had prepopulated anything.

    2AM - we had completed the Bluevine application.

    6AM - we were sent the Bluevine email saying that our application had been submitted to the SBA for processing. The email that said it would take up to 8 days for the SBA to process. I found this strange, as I beleived the SBA was not accepting applications until 10am. Decided this just meant it was queued with some sort of automated Bluevine system.

    Red Herring: At noon Lendio emailed again and said they had submitted our application to a lender??

    5PM - Bluevine emailed to tell us the SBA had processed the application and we were approved. The email had a button to complete a Cross River docusign. The docusign included a SBA loan number. We completed the docusign by 6PM. After this we were shown the Bluevine dashboard with the loan details, last 4 digits of target bank account, and a note saying the funds should be deposited within a few business days.

    Tuesday 28th -

    6PM - A further email from Bluevine saying that an ACH transfer has been initiated and the funds would be deposited within 2-3 days.

    ​

    --Edited typos---

    submitted by /u/anony_ppp
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    SBA, whatever.

    Posted: 29 Apr 2020 04:14 AM PDT

    I have been up pondering and thinking about everything that covid-19 has affected besides our potential health. I am very pleased to see that the SBA is stepping up to help small business that were heavily impacted by this pandemic. But, at the same time I am deeply disappointed. What happens to us whom are sole proprietors? I pay my taxes in each and every year. I work very hard for every penny I earn just as much and any other hardworking individual who works for a small or even larger company. I am just completely disgusted to see that they are advertising to have helped us, when they haven't. I have received one email regarding my loan application that was submitted/accepted close to a month ago. I keep up with many others who have also applied for the grant/loan who had the same qualifications as myself who have received their cash advance/loan.

    I am starting to lose hope that I will ever see one penny form the SBA. I am at a point where I am just wanting answers. I am so upset that I am being forced to stay home from work, when I see many others out working following strict health guiltiness and practicing extensive procedures in regarding the spread of the virus. I see many nurses and doctors who work and fight around this virus every single day who have yet to contract it. So, why is it that we can't practice the same set of procedures as the hospital at weddings?

    Why am I forced to succumb spending out of money I have saved and put back for futures bills and obligations? This isn't fair. I never once stated I could not work until health officials stepped in with consequences if we proceeded to work against their will. And they are still fully functioning mentally and fincianally cause they still have a current job. It is just so contradicting to have someone in that position who is forcing us to stay home from work who have no worries of future bills or obligations because they are currently still employed.

    The point of this post is to show you all that not everyone who owns a small business is getting the finical help they need doing this pandemic.

    We are still struggling!

    I am so ready for the pandemic to be over with. I am so ready to get back to work and start providing for my family again. Even though I do have the help of my partner to get by during these unprecedented times, it still is a struggle.

    Please, keep all your local business owners, small business owners, family and friends in your thoughts and prayers. <3

    submitted by /u/queenhalah_
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    Finally approved

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 06:45 PM PDT

    Got our ppl approved. Now waiting for funding. I'm a florist with 20 employees so we for sure hope the funding comes before Mother's day, since it is the second busiest week of the year and we want to count that payroll for forgiveness.

    As an old finance guy, it scares me to have a loan and not know the terms of forgiveness. The banker was no help. Kept talking in generalities. Whatever. I'm wishing you all good luck.

    submitted by /u/Bigted4500
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    My new Community Bank just called me with SBA approval for PPP

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 11:01 AM PDT

    After applying with BoA whom Ive banked with for 18 years within an hour of them opening up on 4/3, and jumping through hoops a few times with their Intralinks website for paperwork. I remained patient and hoped BoA would get me done. Needless to say they didnt. On the day the PPP ran out of funding, I put in an app with a small community here in south alabama. Also, last week filled out the app for quickbooks. Basically 24 hours after the smaller bank could submit my loan, they had my loan number! Needless to say, I have five accounts to close at BoA.

    I only have five employees and Im a grown ass man, but I wont lie, when she told me she had the number, it brought tears to my eyes! SO much pressure relieved.

    For everyone waiting still...keep the faith, dont give up!

    submitted by /u/CrimsonTide2000
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    Starting to lose hope for PPP Loan ��

    Posted: 28 Apr 2020 08:03 PM PDT

    Applied to 7 places and so far Kabbage has been pretty much a fraud (many illegal activities and if you search kabbage almost every post is about that) and the others I've heard nothing besides generic emails.

    PayPal still seems to be in the running

    Credibly (I thought they were promising but applied 4/12 received the approval email and ready to submit but still nothing)

    Lendio (not even sure)

    BlueVine (dropped me after approving me and at the same time kabbage supposedly submitted my app on Sunday 4/26. Some how they have magical powers to submit apps before SBA was approving them)

    Local CU: Supposedly on a processors desk ready to go

    Santander Bank: (Joke, no ones been funded)

    I discovered this video of what lenders are doing to apps: https://gfycat.com/belovedlikablefirebelliedtoad

    I feel even the fintechs are pushing the little guys aside now due to the potential money they can make from larger loans.

    submitted by /u/jarrad777
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