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    Financial Independence Daily FI discussion thread - Thursday, June 03, 2021

    Financial Independence Daily FI discussion thread - Thursday, June 03, 2021


    Daily FI discussion thread - Thursday, June 03, 2021

    Posted: 03 Jun 2021 02:00 AM PDT

    Please use this thread to have discussions which you don't feel warrant a new post to the sub. While the Rules for posting questions on the basics of personal finance/investing topics are relaxed a little bit here, the rules against memes/spam/self-promotion/excessive rudeness/politics still apply!

    Have a look at the FAQ for this subreddit before posting to see if your question is frequently asked.

    Since this post does tend to get busy, consider sorting the comments by "new" (instead of "best" or "top") to see the newest posts.

    submitted by /u/AutoModerator
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    SkinnyFire to FatFire?

    Posted: 03 Jun 2021 08:44 AM PDT

    Has anyone SkinnyFIRE into FatFIRE?

    Just curious if anyone has done or thought about retiring frugally at a much lower draw (1.5%) and eventually let the portfolio grow into a more sizeable account and drawing normally in the later years.

    In my projections, I plan on have 1.6 million by 40 years old. My draw of 1.5% will put me at $24k a year which is more than enough for retiring overseas in countries like Malaysia, Vietnam, Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, etc. While living on a 1.5% draw I can maintain an aggressive portfolio to still return ~7% meaning 1.6M X.07 = 112k-24k=88k annually saved. Roughly in about 10 years I would have over 3M and can then do a 4% draw for 120k a year.

    This gives me the benefit of retiring at 40 and having 3M at age 50 rather than work until age 46 and have 3M according to my projections.

    Thoughts?

    submitted by /u/Ak15567
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    FIREd 18m ago. I'm missing social life and I'm thinking getting back to work.

    Posted: 03 Jun 2021 01:42 AM PDT

    I reached my number right before the pandemic. >40, single parent. I decided to quit in January 2020, having a break of one or two years in mind, and then decide what to do: early retire or return to the "normal world" after a sabbatical.

    Before I quit, I was mainly doing management roles, either in sales or people management. My last job was a middle management position in a worldwide startup. The day-to-day job provided me a very active social life by interacting with many people across the company. But those "active social days" were also frustrating: I have been frugal all my life and felt a little disconnected from my peers, which generally were very competitive, trying to climb the career stages as fast as possible. Reaching my number was a magical moment when I felt I was finally free from corporative hypocrisy. I was feeling tired, demotivated, and kind of imposter syndrome.

    While the pandemic changed many of my original plans, 2020 was a fantastic year for me. I finally had the time to catch up with some personal projects and support my family in the pandemic by being more present as a parent and appreciating some solitude.

    Meanwhile, 2021 is starting to present some challenges. That initial solitude suddenly became loneliness, and I'm beginning to feel that my social life has been declining, mostly because I feel disconnected from the rest of the people that were part of my past life. Creating new social friends during the pandemic has been quite tricky, and I'm even starting to miss some daily business conversations that I was having before quitting. I guess that daily hypocrisy was at least challenging me intellectually.

    Meanwhile, I have embraced some voluntary work at a local organization. While that fulfills some inner need of having a mission and makes me grow as a person, I don't feel myself growing intellectually. I guess I miss the daily challenge of overcoming a political discussion or having a different perspective about something.

    I also tied to get involved in local groups about some of my hobbies, but I'm feeling people tend not to extend their social circle because of the pandemic.

    I'm thinking of getting back to work.

    I am even thinking of getting back to a lower job role position, where I can simply "execute" something and interact with others just to get back to social life and have some fun.

    For those who have FIREd, did you feel the same? For those who don't, how did you keep your social life outside of wfh conf calls, during the pandemic?

    submitted by /u/the_master_sh33p
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    Questions about Bond Allocation

    Posted: 03 Jun 2021 06:58 AM PDT

    What does one recommend for a bond allocation if you were 2-4 years from FIRE. What should a Bond Allocation be after FIRE?

    submitted by /u/jericko
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    My FIRE Journey: 33, no home, no wife, $1.2M N/W

    Posted: 02 Jun 2021 06:00 PM PDT

    Usually when i read these types of posts myself I find it hard to find the takeaways that aren't the cliche "Have rich parents" or "Get a job at a successful tech start-up that goes public".

    So, in the spirit of full disclosure, I'm going to start with what I see as the drivers behind my net worth:

    1. The US domestic stock market: I've always invested ~75%+ of my net worth into US equities. Sure, i got lucky a few times with some of my stock picks but I also got unlucky plenty of times. I've lost 25% of my n/w on single trades before (that hurts). But, averaging those returns out, nothing beats US equities. The inherent optimism within every American will ensure this will be the case for decades to come. Do not bet against America (coming from a non-US citizen).
    2. I didn't rush to buy a home: Related to point 1, for the past decade I've rented cheap apartments. Some of those apartments haven't been the nicest places to live but for an office-dwelling drone who mainly used their home to sleep it was a fair trade. On the flip side, I know many "house poor" friends/co-workers who can't take advantage of the stock market due to having so much of their capital tied up in real estate (and massive mortgages to boot).
    3. I didn't go to college, and have zero debt: This one is tough as if you want to become a doctor you have to go to college. But it wouldn't be intellectually honest of me to ignore the fact I didn't enter the workforce saddled with five figures (or more) of debt.
    4. I took risks: During the Great Recession and COVID I literally shoveled money into the markets. I sold assets, I leveraged myself up the wazoo with margin; you name it. If there was a way for me to invest another dollar into US equities I did it (including cutting wayyyy back on my monthly expenses). I did this at times when friends/family were sometimes pleading with me not to (because: "the markets are crashing"). While I'm not old old, i'm old enough to know market cycles are real and not something to be scared of.

    My goal: "Retire" at 40. And what I really mean by that is work part time while having "FU money", more of a Barista FIRE.

    Here's how my net worth breaks down (as of today):

    Brokerage 401K Cash Assets
    $1,020,116 $129,963 $27,239 $25,400

    Net worth over time:

    • 2010 $32,768
    • 2011 $41,584
    • 2012 $65,494
    • 2013 $90,684
    • 2014 $94,495
    • 2015 $94,849
    • 2016 $137,270
    • 2017 $321,515
    • 2018 $361,655
    • 2019 $395,746
    • 2020 $798,778
    • 2021 $1,202,088
    submitted by /u/lolkkthxbye
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    Back of Napkin Math

    Posted: 03 Jun 2021 08:03 AM PDT

    I like to run retirement scenarios in my head. My goal is to be able to retire without touching the principal basically forever. One of the problems with my calculations is that some of the assets are saved pretax (not all of the balance is actually mine). Another problem that I have is that I have been paid biweekly for basically most of my professional life (same job for an extremely long time). Another problem I have is that bills are mostly monthly in nature (most people do not create a budget for a year). I want my safe withdraw rate to adjust itself naturally. There are a lot of factors that can bog you down into nearly spreadsheet like calculations. I want to simplify all that.

    First to tackle the pretax issue. If I assume 30% taxes in retirement the 4% rule leads to 70% x 4% which is the 2.8% rule. Does this seem correct?

    To make working with the number better to fit my monthly budget if I can spend 4% every 12 months that means I can spend 1/12 of 4% every month. If 1/12 of 4% x Principal = Monthly Expenditure. That means Principal = Monthly expenditure x 12 / 0.04. Back of paper this means that I need 300 times my monthly expenditures saved up. This seems so much easier to me than thinking in terms of annual budgets. Why is there nothing called the 300 Times Rule?

    Now on to simplification of withdraws. Why is everyone so fixated on annual withdraws? If I look at the 2.8% rule and make it a biweekly affair 2.8% is roughly 0.11% every two weeks. If I look at the start of the year and determine by paycheck for the year and withdraw 0.11% every two weeks is that oversimplifying things?

    Finally, I like ratios and like my money to last forever. If I wanted to to have $100 a day forever this would be $1400 every two weeks. $1400 / 0.11% ~ $1,272,000 so the ratio of having $100 day : $1,272,000 means for each dollar $1 day : $12,720 principal.

    I am being overly simplistic? Can someone point me where I am wrong?

    submitted by /u/trycatchblock22
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    Teaching kids about money

    Posted: 02 Jun 2021 09:45 PM PDT

    For those of you who give kids an allowance and expect them to pay for extras, where do you draw the line? After reading the Opposite of Spoiled, we decided to give our kids an allowance, a dollar for every year of their age to set them up for financial independence from a young age.

    They divide it into savings/charity/spending (different percentages for each child because the older one is expected to purchase her own clothes) and get to do pretty much whatever they want with their "spending" portion. They are expected to pay for random wants, candy/gum, treats if they request a special trip to the store for junk food, generally small things we don't really want to purchase for them. If they ask for something online like a toy, they just pay us back in cash. (ETA: I am considering increasing the older one's allowance so she has money money for clothes)

    My thoughtful, never-wanting-to-bother anyone, taking on too much responsibility for a child, has paid me for small items I was happy to pay for, even after I refused. She also loves to spend much of her money on gifts for others. I don't usually give it much thought because it's usually just a couple of dollars, however recently, she mentioned wanting to get her ears pierced and how it would take a long time for her to save up. This made me realize that maybe I should be paying for some of the things she normally pays for and also making that clear to her.

    We aren't big-time shoppers, so there aren't a lot of opportunities for them to ask for or be tempted by stuff. (ETA: They don't ask for much.) The kids also go to very small schools so there isn't as much peer pressure to influence their wants. They get lots of gifts for holidays from family, and we buy them a couple of reasonable gifts too, plus for accomplishments. We talk about money regularly in what I would consider a healthy manner talk and about not being wasteful plus the environmental impact of materialism. If I see something I think they'll need or like, I might pick it up for them. (ETA: we do plenty of experiences, take them out to eat, etc. we're just not big on many popular material things)

    So, where would you draw the line? For an older kid and also for a teen? Would it depend on how much you give in allowance? I am looking for rules I can follow, I'm not so good with using my best judgement, unfortunately. I want them to learn about money but don't want them to think they can't ask us for anything.

    Thanks!

    submitted by /u/Ok-Difficulty-1731
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