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    Personal Finance Weekday Help and Victory Thread for the week of April 06, 2020

    Personal Finance Weekday Help and Victory Thread for the week of April 06, 2020


    Weekday Help and Victory Thread for the week of April 06, 2020

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 04:07 AM PDT

    If you need help, please check the PF Wiki to see if your question might be answered there.

    This thread is for personal finance questions, discussions, and sharing your success stories:

    1. Please make a top-level comment if you want to ask a question! Also, please don't downvote "moronic" questions! If you have not received your answer within 24 hours, please feel free to start a discussion.

    2. Make a top-level comment if you want to share something positive regarding your personal finances!

    A big thank you to the many PFers who take time to answer other people's questions!

    submitted by /u/AutoModerator
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    Don't listen to the charlatans. You can't time the market.

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 10:01 AM PDT

    Here are the headlines (in-order) from MarketWatch.com this morning:

    • Barron's on MarketWatch: Economic damage can't be reversed, and stocks will resume decline, says stratigist
    • Jim Rogers: Worst is yet to come for U.S. markets
    • Last month Bill Ackman said 'hell is coming.' Now he's 'optimistic.'
    • Market bottom or 'very tough times ahead'? Here's what one chart watcher is keeping his eye on
    • "The worst is behind us,' and risk-vs-reward hasn't been this attractive in years: Morgan Stanley

    So we can definitively say that the experts agree that the market is going to go up .... or down .... or they aren't sure .... one person is watching (so you can be sure he'll tell you after whatever happens happens) ... and another has already changed his mind. If you don't smell BS, you don't have a nose.

    NOBODY KNOWS! Anyone that says they do, is a charlatan. Do not waste your time looking at prognostications and definitely don't make financial moves based on them. Do yourself a favor: Invest for the long-term and turn off the news feed.

    submitted by /u/Mac-Bomaco
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    Allstate offering a 15% payback in April and May for car insurance

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 04:26 PM PDT

    I received an email from Allstate saying they are paying back 15% in insurance premium for April and May due to people driving less. I thought this was a nice gesture. Are other insurance companies following suit?

    I went on to their app and it said no action was required to receive the payback.

    submitted by /u/wastedtimer
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    How should I invest $3,500? I'm 55, in debt, have cancer and am now temporarily unemployed

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 08:15 AM PDT

    I'm in terrible financial condition. I am about $40,000 in debt and have no financial safety net. Both of my parents have been ill for years; caring for them has drained the savings I used to have. I kind of gave up trying to fix things but now want to learn how to turn things around at my late age. My health condition is stable for the time being. Just mentioned it to give the full picture. I know. scary.

    submitted by /u/zewkt
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    Do I pay down student debt or invest in retirement savings?

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 05:24 PM PDT

    I've been a frequenter of r/personalfinance for years now, but never contributed any content of my own. So I was doing some personal budgeting as a result of COVID-19 and came across this decision. Essentially, it's the never-ending dilemma: "Do I invest or pay down debts?" Specifically, if my only debt is student loan debt, should I pay that down or invest?

    TL;DR: It probably makes financial sense to pay down your student loan debt first even if your expected CAGR is higher by investing it. Theoretically, investing the money might yield a larger retirement balance, but it's likely negligible and not worth the sacrificed financial security of being debt free.

    Before I dive into the math and assumptions, please feel free to comment and pick apart my "analysis". I mainly did this as a personal exercise, but then a friend suggested I post to reddit. I'm not a financial advisor in any capacity and this is not intended to represent any sort of financial advice. Do your own analysis :)

    I always thought that the common advice given here in Reddit was wrong. The common advice I always see here is "contribute up to employer 401k match, then pay down your debts, then invest after you're debt free" and it's doled out almost indiscriminately. Then sometimes, I see somebody say it depends on the interest rate of your debt (read: student loans) and that if your interest rate is below a certain level (usually stated at <4%) you don't need to make accelerated payments. However, I never understood why it even mattered. Of course investing up to the employer match was obvious because it's a guaranteed ROI, but the rest I didn't agree with. My assumption was as follows:

    Compounded interest on a loan is based on a factor of the interest rate multiplied by the loan principal. I always reasoned that as you pay down the loan, the interest also falls as well. However, when investing in retirement, your interest is always compounding in the opposite (positive) direction. So, I always thought to myself that even if your expected ROI for investments is 7% and your loan interest rate is 7%, you should still invest the money and make the minimum payments (10-year repayment plan) on your student loans. This is because the compounding interest on the retirement money has a 40-year horizon versus the compounding of loan interest is a maximum of 10-year horizon. This is obvious right? LOL WRONG

    Over the weekend, I (thankfully) decided to check the math and calculate the actual numbers in Excel. To my surprise, I was wrong in my premise and I'm happy to admit how wrong I was; the interest rate on the loan definitely matters. In addition I'll take it one step further, unless your student loan interest rate is really low (read: < 3%) you probably should pay down your loans first anyways. This is just my opinion.

    so here's the math: Available monthly money to use for debt payment or investing: $2,000 Student loan balance: $40,000 Student loan interest rate: 3.50% retirement horizon: 40 years, or 480 months (i.e. April 2060) Expected retirement interest rate: 7.00%

    These numbers assume no changes over the 40-year period of the calculation. This is obviously wrong because there will almost certainly be inflation/deflation, COLA adjustments to salary, and etc. However, in order to forecast we need to project based on what we know now; so we leave numbers constant.

    Three simulations showing a 10-year payoff term, 5-year payoff term, and 2-year payoff term:

    https://imgur.com/pcxgiKD

    in the most extreme case (2-year payoff term), after 40 years, you would have $73,903.20 LESS in retirement savings than had you invested more up front. This equates to $2,217.10/year LESS withdrawal rate (assuming 3.00% SWR). This further divides down to $184.76/month LESS.

    So, in short (read: long), depending on the interest rate of the loan (and retirement fund growth), you could end up with more in retirement savings over the long run. However, it's likely negligible in and the financial security of having paid off the loans as quickly as you can afford might be worth the sacrifice of those lost gains.

    I hope this helped anybody like myself that might have not done the calculations themselves. Please feel free to point out any errors in my assumptions or calculations.

    In case anybody asks, the formulas used in Excel are: =CUMIPMT =PMT =FV

    submitted by /u/WannabePFS
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    Great Lakes student loans

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 03:32 PM PDT

    I had monthly auto pay set up for my loans due the 3rd of every month.

    Last it applied was on March. After reading a thread yesterday about autopay being automatically disabled for everyone, i decided to check mine as well.

    and looks like they automatically turned my off as well.

    I know that currently there are no interest rates accruing for student loans. but i am not in a predicament where I would be having to stop making monthly payments. so i was planning on letting my auto pay do its thing.

    now it says that its in forbearance (doesnt sound like a good word lol). does that actually do any damage to me? it says payment will resume on 11/20. just to make sure, not making payments at this time WONT make me default, or anything? there isnt a catch to this whole thing correct?

    (i.e. like all these mortgage loans or car loans thats giving you some "deal" due to current hard times, that turns out its actually a bad deal to take if you dont require the help).

    submitted by /u/iamnewnewnew
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    Filed a bunch of back taxes, and now I don't know what to do next??

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 06:45 AM PDT

    Long story short I was incredibly stupid and didn't file my taxes for a few years. Six years to be exact.

    My wife is way smarter and more responsible than I am, and she found out when we were getting ready to file jointly for the first time this year. Somehow she isn't divorcing me or kicking me out, and instead she worked tirelessly all weekend to help me file all of my back taxes and send in checks for all of the money I owed. She is angel and I am a fool, but that's not the point of this post.

    With the IRS Help Line not in service, where do I turn for questions and guidance from here? Some things we just aren't sure about:

    • Did I do the right thing? Just filing and sending in checks?
    • What about the penalties and interest? Will they just contact me about the remaining amount owed?
    • Am I going to go to jail? Hopefully not since we paid and will pay whatever else I owe...
    • I've read that if you call the help line sometimes they will waive some fees in exchange for immediate payment. I guess I'm screwed there since that line is closed?
    • Most importantly - is there anywhere I can go for answers now besides just digging through the maze that is the IRS website?
    submitted by /u/ImportantWarthog
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    Stuck in "essential" work but would get paid more if I was just on unemployment.

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 07:19 PM PDT

    So for us that work low paying but "essential" jobs has there been anything said about a federal level bonus for working during the pandemic? I only make ~$10/hr and I am forced to keep working meanwhile everybody I know that is getting unemployment is going to be making far more per week than I will from actually working. Especially if the federal $600 supplemental payment also goes through for everybody. That alone is more than I make in a week. It just makes it irritating that on top of having to be out and dealing with the public during all of this, people are making far more for doing nothing and being able to stay away from potentially sick people.

    submitted by /u/lifeisruffff
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    Bank of America sent me a new credit card without prompting, and I can't connect with customer service to understand why

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 02:10 PM PDT

    Sorry if this is a total beginner question or I should be putting this somewhere else, but I am really at a loss and my life is a disaster right now, so this is one additional thing I cannot really handle.

    I received an email about this on Friday and haven't been able to reach their customer service line. It keeps kicking me off due to coronavirus. I have not requested a replacement credit card. They did not explain what was going on in the email-- just told me to look out for my new card with instructions. I haven't received one yet, but I'm also in the process of moving so I haven't been able to check my old address.

    do I need to freeze my credit? Is this normal?

    Edit: looks like a lot of people with BoA had this happen recently due to them rolling out contactless payments in their cards. I'll double check but feel a lot better now. Thank you to everyone for your help! My capacity to handle things right now is really diminished and I appreciate everyone who was willing to advise me and help out! Cheers and stay safe!

    submitted by /u/rashmallow
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    What’s the best way to save for a house?

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 10:39 AM PDT

    My starting salary at age 22 will likely be around 60k/year. The area I want to live in with my future family is quite expensive, though; even a cheap 20% down payment is around 120,000. I wouldn't be buying until my 30s at the earliest, though.

    Would the best way to save for this house be to deposit a few hundred dollars a month into a high-yield savings account? I ask because that's what I thought of first, but I thought there might be an option I missed (e.g. an index fund) because I'm not that knowledgeable about finances.

    I already live pretty frugally (no drinking, smoking, expensive restaurants or vacations, I see maybe 2 movies in the theater a year, etc).

    submitted by /u/QuestToTheStars
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    Prioritize Roth IRA or Roth 457

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 07:00 PM PDT

    I am 25 y/o and currently work as a police officer in NY. With that, I have the option to enroll in a 457 plan or deferred compensation plan. However, before I started, I opened a Roth IRA for 2 years. My 457 plan also allows me to enroll in the Roth version or pre-tax. I plan to do Roth regardless but my question is should I fund one or the other or both and if both, should I fund the IRA or the 457 first? My understanding is the only real difference is I can access the 457 on my retirement date (slated to be mid 40's) and the IRA is at 59 1/2. Any advice would be appreciated.

    submitted by /u/mikewinchell20
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    H&R Block says "Unfortunately, you can’t e-file your Minnesota return this year"

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 10:39 AM PDT

    This is the message I get

    This is because:

    1. MN - You cannot electronically file your Minnesota return with an invalid state ID number entered on a W2, W2G, 1099R or MN1. A valid ID number contains 7 digits with no spaces or dashes. If you cannot obtain your employer's seven-digit ID number, use 9999999.

    2. MN - A Minnesota state ID number must be entered for each item with Minnesota tax withheld that is entered in the federal interview. If you cannot obtain your employer's seven-digit ID number, use 9999999.

    You'll have to print and mail your 2019 return instead. We'll include mailing instructions along with your printed return.

    Since you aren't able to e-file, some of your refund or balance due to options might change. We'll review those with you next, and you can see what options are available.

    I don't know what the issue is and it wont help me fix it. All my info is valid

    submitted by /u/ResumesCover
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    Please Give Advice to Someone Lucky Enough to Still Be Working

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 06:29 PM PDT

    Hello!

    As the title states, I am fortunate enough to still be employed. Completely by chance, I started a new job at the beginning of March which happens to be in the realm of critical infrastructure. I am making more money than ever before (this job more than doubled my previous pay), and am wondering what you would recommend I do with it...a little financial snapshot:

    Credits:

    I currently make $11,800 gross per month. My net after taxes is roughly $7,800/month (salary)

    Debts:

    $9000 Credit Cards (2 total, 15-15.5% interest, fixed)

    $10,000 Credit Card (1, 0% interest through March 2021, then 18.5% fixed)

    $42,000 Truck (1, 2.9% interest, fixed, just purchased in February)

    $22,000 Student Loans (5 total, 3-4% interest, fixed); Currently automatically deferred by my lender

    Monthly expenses:

    Truck payment: $840/month (I have a company fuel card for my personal vehicle, so no fuel expenses)

    Rent: $200/month (my friend is giving me a deal in the short term while I find a place)

    Car Insurance: $300/month

    Medical Insurance and 401k: $500/month

    Additional info:

    Currently, I am aggressively paying off my high-interest credit card debt. This is my first priority.

    I live in the Bay Area.

    My job is very stable.

    I would like to buy a home someday. I previously saw this as out of reach, at least for quite awhile, but am currently reconsidering whether that will remain true, especially if current events cause a correction in the Bay Area real estate market.

    I am a single father, but my son is temporarily staying with his mother while I get settled here with the new job and find a place for the two of us (which is allowing me to crash with a friend for cheap and save while he finishes out the school year). This means I have to find a place to live for the both of us and give up crashing with a friend sometime mid-summer at the latest so that we're both settled in before school starts. He will be going into high school, so school zoning is important.

    My thoughts: Recently, I've been considering saving money for down payment on a house once my high-interest credit cards are paid off. My initial thought when I took this job was to just continue paying down debt while renting, but the current market outlook has me reconsidering. That and the fact that an average 2 bed rental around here (looking to move to San Jose, near work) will set me back $2500-$3000 per month anyway, so if I can get into a mortgage, why not?

    I am currently researching Santa Clara County first-time (and otherwise) home buyer assistance programs. I am waiting to hear back from them now (just submitted some paperwork today). There is one that I may qualify for that will lend me 17% of the purchase price if I put 3% down, with no interest and no payments until I sell the house.

    Thanks for reading and thanks for any suggestions you may have!

    submitted by /u/throwaway____2020
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    How much would be fair to deduct my roommates rent/bills by while she isn't here?

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 10:52 AM PDT

    Three people live in a 3 bed house and split everything perfectly 3 ways. Theres me, my bf, and my roommate. We each pay £330 and that covers everything (rent, bills, wifi etc).

    Me and bf share the largest bedroom, roommate has the second largest room and the third room is used as storage for both, it has roommates suitcases and third sofa she got from a friend in along with some other bits. We have a chest of drawers in there with coats/jumpers stuffed inside.

    Roommate has barely spent any time here in the last 5 months. She comes home twice a month or so to spend a night and the rest of the time spends it with her bf at his place. Since lockdown happened she hasn't come back, and now can't come back until June.

    She's asked if she can pay less because she's not here using the utilities and wants to contribute to help her family (she's staying with parents rn). I'm totally on board with this! She's doing me and bf a huge favour IMO anyway as we mostly have a house to ourselves and pay less than we would do just us.

    Neither of us however are sure what a normal/reasonable amount would be, and I think we've both been hesitant to make a suggestion incase it offends the other one. Rent is £650, council tax £155 and the rest is bills.

    The only reason I'd like her to keep paying anything at all is that we wouldn't have got such a large/pricey 3 bed house if we didn't need space for her items. Her furniture is everywhere so we cant really make use of bedrooms 2 & 3 for anything, half the freezer still has her food in, her plates/cooking stuff in half the cupboards etc so we've got reduced space.

    Any ideas from anyone with experience what a fair amount would be for everyone?

    Thanks!

    EDIT: Thank you all for your advice both personal and professional!

    One part I think was important that I missed out is that this roommate is also my best friend so to me it's worth paying a little extra for everyone to be happy. Especially since us splitting 3 ways even with her paying slightly less still works out better for me and my partner then if we split a 1/2 bed alone since those go for £550-600 in my area

    I talked it out with bf and roomie and we agreed for her to pay £60 less. It only increases mine and bfs payments by £30 each which isn't budget breaking by any means and I know it really helps her out. It basically means we're taking over all utilities and roommate is just paying rent & council tax. We're also condensing her things and taking up more of the house space/3rd bedroom since she's not using it anyway to make our lives a bit more comfortable.

    She also pays the bills and deals with the monthly meter readings etc which is an invaluable service to me lol.

    Overall thank you for the help!!

    submitted by /u/XxhumanguineapigxX
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    Unemployment NY - Session Timing Out - **Workaround** (crosspost from /r/unemployment)

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 07:47 PM PDT

    If you've been trying to file for unemployment in NY and have been getting a "session timed out" error, this may be for you.

    I had been getting "session timed out" errors on the New York State Unemployment website when trying to file a claim. It was doing this even when the system was quite responsive, even when I was completing each form in seconds, cutting and pasting from a word doc to save time.

    After about a week of trying and failing, I finally figured out that it's a bogus error message and has nothing to do with anything timing out.

    The problem is that the NYS unemployment website apparently does not handle Google Chrome or Firefox correctly.

    Once I switched to Microsoft Edge, it worked perfectly.

    So the "trick" is to try Microsoft Edge browser, or possibly Internet Explorer (didn't try it)

    If anybody doesn't have a copy of MS Edge, perhaps because you're not running Windows, you can download a free, 100% legitimate copy of a Windows 10 Virtual Machine containing MS Edge from: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/

    It's good for 90 days.

    This is a Virtual Machine Image, which means that if you want to run it, you'll need some VM software like VirtulaBox (free on Linux) or whatever you need on your platform.

    Or just find a friend who has a Windows machine.

    Hope this helps some of you.

    submitted by /u/Edward_Morbius
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    Signed myself up and paid $75 for IBA with Primerica, how do I get out

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 04:07 PM PDT

    Like many people on here, I've fallen into hard times and was heavily considering to call up my old place of work (wasn't the best place) when a friend came to me with a new employment opportunity with not too much information off the bat. Being the desperate person I am, I reached out and within less than 5 hours I had been on a zoom call with them and their "supervisor" where they rush through the presentation and without really having time to research Primerica during the call, I signed up and shelled out $50 for the application and $25 for a background check.

    I thought this was extremely weird and shady considering this happened over Zoom and my previous job never made me pay for both app/background check so that's when I looked up Primerica and told my friend that I don't think I'm ready for the job right now. I haven't signed any further documents with them and I'm not sure if I could even get the money back (which would be help since that was pretty much all I had left). If anyone who has worked with them in the past knows how to get out and how to get back my money, that would be super helpful.

    submitted by /u/imbobothefool
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    State wants me to pay back my tax return (that I already received) and they can't answer my questions.

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 05:12 PM PDT

    A week ago, I got a letter in the mail from Kansas Dept. of Revenue. The letter states that they have modified the military compensation for non-residents. After deciphering and consulting with a few people, it appears that the confusing tables in the letter say that I need to pay back the tax return that I already received, however, there are 3 different numbers that look like the amount I'm supposed to pay (again, the damn letter is hard to read).

    I tried calling the helpline on the paper, but they can't answer because they are shutdown due to the quarantine. The letter also says that I'll accrue interest after 30 days of nonpayment ( the letter was postmarked on Mar 18) and that I must mail in the money. Is there a website that I can go to that explains the modifications they made to non-resident military members, or the tables on the letter?

    submitted by /u/YetiP00P
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    Hundreds of dollars in fraudulent credit card charges, cannot contact CreditOne.

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 05:06 PM PDT

    I hold a low-limit credit card with Credit One (I know, I know) that I use infrequently and maintain a low balance on.

    I have never missed a payment and seldom utilize this card, so I am not in the habit of checking the account regularly, unless it is around payment time.

    This month when budgeting, I logged in to discover hundreds of dollars in fraudulent charges. The card has not been lost, so this is clearly an online thing.

    I have called CreditOne – both their fraud and customer service departments – around 60+ times since the discovery of the charges on Friday afternoon – on the hour every hour for regular business hours.

    Each time, I am disconnected after a minute or so with the error message "Due to the Coronavirus, we are experiencing an unprecedented number of calls and cannot process your call at this time. Please hang up and try again later".

    Their website does not offer the ability to freeze an account, cancel a card, or report fraud. Their is no online chat that I can find.

    The thief has already gone $200 over the limit of the card.

    Do I have any avenues of recourse? I'm freaking out.

    submitted by /u/divinekettle
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    Debt collector confusion

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 08:27 PM PDT

    Hey you, how are ya? That's great...

    Anyway, about a month ago, I got a call from X debt collection company, telling me I have a 350 dollar debt to Nondescript Urgent Care from about a year and a half ago. To the best of my knowledge I did not go to Nondescript Urgent Care anywhere near that time and I did not get any mail or messages from Nondescript Urgent Care about any debt.

    I asked the debt collector if they could provide detail and they said they could not due to HIPA. I told them I hadn't been there and they said something along the lines of "they would mark it as a dispute." Today I got another piece of mail from Debt Collection company saying if I do not message them they will tell Nondescript Urgent Care I refused to pay. (It's too late to call them or anything right now.)

    My first thought was that wasn't right because I disputed it. But maybe it is, I guess I'm just confused. What exactly is disputing a debt? What do I have to do? I'm very frugal and don't normally have to deal with debt so this is all very confusing to me. If someone could explain what's happening and what I should do I would be very grateful!

    submitted by /u/I_PokeAtThee
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    I'm in need of some clarity on Unemployment and how it works

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 10:16 AM PDT

    I've applied for unemployment and I haven't gotten anything in the mail nor have I gotten a notice other then a confirmation number that I registered for an account. I'm unsure if I filed correctly because I'm unable to make a new claim, yet I don't have an ID to look up my status.

    Edit: some additional info. I filed in California on March 18

    submitted by /u/agent_negro
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    [Georgia] I desperately need help/resources with unemployment claims

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 12:51 PM PDT

    I'm in Georgia but my employer sent out an email saying we should apply and they'd approve it. I applied and then they later sent out an email saying they filed a partial claim for me and I should be getting benefits soon. Instead, the GDOL picked my claim, said that I've not made enough wages at all and that I need to call to confirm all of this. Well I've called 80 times per day over the last 7 days, not a single person has answered the phones and so my claims website says I'm getting $0/week.

    I'm 23 and I've worked in restaurants basically all of my life except recently. I work Set Security for film production here in town and all of that has stopped because of COVID-19. I've never experienced anything with unemployment before so this is new territory and it's got me stressed out to the max because I don't know what to do, who to call, and how to get this fixed so my employers claim goes through.

    Am I really just stuck to waiting until the phone lines are clear to get money coming in? Not a single place is actually hiring as per usual.

    submitted by /u/ihavenoregerts
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    My employer gave me an incorrect W2, refuses to correct.

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 08:22 PM PDT

    I had a super shady employer last year. For the first three months or so they used payroll software and I got paystubs.

    They started to have money troubles and started writing checks for net pay. The W2 I received only included the first three months that were through the payroll software. They were deducting taxes from my pay and not actually paying the government anything.

    I have attempted to contact them months ago and they claim they are talking to an accountant. They are bullshitting me.

    I've tried calling the IRS but they are not accepting phone calls nor are the offices staffed because of covid.

    I know I owe taxes as I worked 1099 for a contracting company after the shady company stopped paying me in September.

    I want to file and get it over with but I want to accurately pay. What should I do?

    submitted by /u/pale_shadow
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    Bank Fees exceeding $100 emerge from nowhere after Credit Card company borks an automatic payment after I manually authorized a payment for the full amount

    Posted: 06 Apr 2020 04:17 PM PDT

    I have a bank account where automatic payments are set to draw from, let's call it M&P bank. I have a credit card with, let's call it Discoven.

    On Discoven, the payment for the previous statement balance is due on the 22nd of each month. I have an automatic payment setup to pay the full statement balance using that bank account.

    While typing a manual payment, it adjusts the automatic payment amount as you type the amount, to help you preview how much is still due. If I had a statement balance of $500 due, and I typed "35.00" as the amount I want to pay, it would say something along the lines of "your automatic payment of $465.00 will post on Janubrary 22nd". I use this feature to make sure I pay the right amount whenever I am paying from multiple accounts or from Discoven rewards.

    So for February, my statement balance was over $1,500. I had about $20 in Discoven rewards, and wanted to spend a certain amount from my Discoven checking account as well. On March 21st, around 8pm, I authorized payment totaling the full balance, and the Discoven 'Make a Payment' form updated my automatic payment too, saying something along the lines of "Your automatic payment will not post", once I reached the total statement balance.

    After the payment posted, I logged out and considered it done.

    Problem!!! An automatic payment of over $1,500 posted anyway. Here is the payment history as per Discoven

    As you might imagine, I didn't have double the amount floating around in my M&P account. M&P charges an insufficient funds fee of $38.50 and this is the first time I realize there is a problem. I log into my M&P bank, and see the withdrawal I authorized (but not the automatic payment, yet). My M&P balance is in the positive (it is a relationship / joint account, and my mom deposited some more money), and I got a notification from Discoven saying they had received my payment, so I assumed I was off by $1 or something silly in my M&P account, and that the problem had solved (wrong).

    A day (or two?) later, I got another $38.50 insufficient funds fee on M&P. This payment had the same description as the first one, except it says "Retry". (WTF? If it didn't work the first time, don't retry without notifying me, discoven!!!). So M&P has my account down by $77 dollarinos. WTF.

    I log onto Discoven to see what's happening and my account balance is in the negative, by hundreds. My account was credited with twice as much as my February Statement Balance, because... the automatic payment happened anyway, despite an authorization of the full amount payment the day before. (See screenshot - the automatic payment is clearly posted on March 22, while my payments posted on March 21).

    OK, Don't panic, probably some mishap on Discoven's end, they can fix it right?

    I call Discoven and talk with a friendly representative who investigates my payment problem. He tells me I paid after 8pm on March 21st, and that it's actually due at 5pm on March 21st. (Again, when making a payment, it tells you something like "$1,500 due on March 22nd", isn't that deceptive as hell?). He tells me about the fine print: " Payments made by 12:00 Midnight ET, except your Statement Closing Date, will be credited to your account the same day. On your Statement Closing Date, payments made by 5:00 PM ET will credited to your account the same day. "

    I found this to be extremely confusing. That means that my statement closing date is apparently March 21st, and that the manual payments are due at 5pm on March 21st, even though any other day payments are credited to the same day until midnight, even though the thing at the top of the page says due March 22nd, and my discoven payment history lists the manual payments on March 21st anyway. WTF?

    I talk with the guy some more and he basically says I'll have to talk to M&P about the Insufficient Balance fee. I ask him if Discoven will stop charging the bank account, he says it will stop. He says he can send the duplicate statement balance back to that account, and I agree to that.

    I thought that would be it, but then...

    Discoven charges my card $28 listed as a "Returned Check Charge". WTF?

    No, no no I didn't want you to charge my bank account at all, instead you charged it twice, putting my discoven balance in the negative, which any person looking at my account can see as a mistake (especially if M&P declines the payment!).

    So now my total fees from this exchange that appeared out of nowhere is $38.50 + $38.50 + $28 = $105.

    I was dealing this amidst a bunch of new problems due to the outbreak of COVID-19, including having to move out of my apartment (university property, so it closed early) and reduced income (I am a part-time employee in the first place!)

    Please help - what do I do?

    Should I call M&P next? Should I call Discoven again? Should I look into filing a CFPB report? Please, anyone who can help, how do I resolve this?

    Complaints are mostly on Discoven for falsely saying things like "Your automatic payment of XXX won't post...", or trying to charge my M&P account multiple times even though my discoven balance is already below 0. Seriously - an automatic payment should never bring my balance below 0????

    ALSO: According to the fine print, the Cashback Bonus redemption can be after 5pm, but Discoven's automatic payment did not deduct the Cashback Bonus amount from the automatic payment before trying it twice.

    submitted by /u/ThrowAway4BankFees
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