Financial Independence Stop trying to keep up with the FIRE Joneses |
- Stop trying to keep up with the FIRE Joneses
- I don't work in the tech field, and I don't earn over 6 figures a year, and I feel so out of place on this sub.
- Hit 4M USD NW
- I'm sorry, that's just not my kind of retirement calculator
- Just made the last payment on my truck today.
- A History of U.S. Bull and Bear Markets
- Daily FI discussion thread - September 05, 2018
- Financial independence with condos
- Weekly Self-Promotion Thread - September 05, 2018
- Any there any good Google Spreadsheet Tempates with detailed FIRE financial modeling tools?
- FIRE'd at the age of 34! (Or maybe not!)
- What was/is an area of friction or difficulty you have experienced on your path to FI/RE?
- Paying off my mortgage--I'm nervous, but think it's the right thing to do. Is my "reasoning" just way off?
- HCOL home buying + FIRE?
- Mark Cuban says an early book on FIRE helped him earn his first $1 million
- Quick question; How are those of you with kids factoring saving for their college expenses (assuming you plan to help them with that) into your FIRE plans?
- New to this sub with a quick question
- Betterment article on investing your safety net / emergency fund
- (28 m) getting FIRE'd. (so close to $100k net worth)
- Keeping up with the FIRE jonses
| Stop trying to keep up with the FIRE Joneses Posted: 05 Sep 2018 10:08 AM PDT I see a lot of people getting down on where they are at in their FIRE journey when seeing people of the same age or younger FIRE'd or further along than they are. We talk a lot about not buying a fancy car or buying more of a house than is needed just to keep up with the Joneses. But that mentality also applies to the FIRE journey itself. As long as you're following all the steps that are available to you and are comfortable with how much you're saving, then that's all that matters. Not that someone half your age is already FIREd. The fact that you're even considering this path means you're far ahead of most other people. [link] [comments]  |
| Posted: 05 Sep 2018 08:55 AM PDT Im 24 and earn about 35k, and feel so discouraged and bummed out browsing. Congrats to all of you more successful people though. [link] [comments]  |
| Posted: 05 Sep 2018 06:12 AM PDT Throwaway account. We hit 4M NW today! 44 years old. Married with 2 kids (age 7/8) . Dual Income (650K + 160 k ). My salary is expected to reduce as I get older and lazier. We're both doctors. (With changes in US healthcare, I wouldn't be surprised if my income dropped by 50% within 5 years). No health issues for anyone yet. Kids in public school, but expect to do private HS for both (~25k/yr per kid at that time). I expect to pay for my kids college and possibly grad school. House: Mortgage 100k left (@2.25% ; (Conservative value=925k) . I haven't payed it off completely b/c Int rate is low. Wife wants to pay it off for psychological reasons. Investable assets: - Retirement: 840K - Taxable: 1.4M vanguard + 620K in stocks (Schwab Accnt; Tech heavy) - Realty Shares: 30K - Cash 110K 529: 93K 2 Cars owned: 70K. Credit card debt: low; 2K at this time Student loans: paid off completely. Ownership of business: not added; b/c its unclear and I'm not counting on these funds. Annual expenses: on my to do list (but I'm scared); I'm ball parking around 100K excluding mortgage. I know I'm doing well overall but I can't reveal these details to people I know. I've spoken to my friends about FIRE, but now realize that that's the wrong thing to do. It seems too humblebraggy. I've enjoyed lurking on this subreddit. Any advice is appreciated Edit1: thanks for all the advice/ encouragement! Edit2: i also have 1 child college tuition prepaid in my state ( 4 yrs+ 2 yrs dorm). Edit 3: I haven't made 650k/ yr from the get go. This is my most successful year. After residency, my 1st job paid 160k. This is my 12 year in practice. It's slowly escalated from there. I expect to make less next year. [link] [comments]  |
| I'm sorry, that's just not my kind of retirement calculator Posted: 05 Sep 2018 06:22 AM PDT Bored at work, and poking around online about retirement (as I imagine is quite common in this sub) I came across Simple Asset's retirement calculator. Putting my usual numbers, it gave me a message that I had a little chuckle at: "Monthly savings amount should be at most 40% of your monthly income. We have updated your savings amount to 40%." I find it so strange that someone would actually take the time to hard-code that kind of limit into the calculator. The eternal struggle of FIRE seems to be this battle against the idea that what we're doing isn't even possible. EDIT: link for the interested https://smartasset.com/retirement/retirement-calculator [link] [comments]  |
| Just made the last payment on my truck today. Posted: 05 Sep 2018 10:21 AM PDT It's a tacoma and I plan on having it for the next 20 years. Can't wait to start pouring that extra money into something else! [link] [comments]  |
| A History of U.S. Bull and Bear Markets Posted: 05 Sep 2018 03:36 PM PDT I found this graph of bull and bear markets to be fascinating. Credit to /u/jdroth who posted this on his blog. It's surprising just how small the bear markets are relative to both the length and returns of the bull markets. I would have guessed a ratio of 70% bull to 30% bear, but it's more like 90% bull to 10% bear. A good reminder about how the media's natural pessimism can alter our thinking about market performance, and about the value of buy-and-hold. [link] [comments]  |
| Daily FI discussion thread - September 05, 2018 Posted: 05 Sep 2018 04:09 AM PDT Please use this thread to have discussions which you don't feel warrant a new post to the sub. While the Rules for posting questions on the basics of personal finance/investing topics are relaxed a little bit here, the rules against memes/spam/self-promotion/excessive rudeness/politics still apply! Have a look at the FAQ for this subreddit before posting to see if your question is frequently asked. Since this post does tend to get busy, consider sorting the comments by "new" (instead of "best" or "top") to see the newest posts. [link] [comments]  |
| Financial independence with condos Posted: 05 Sep 2018 02:46 PM PDT I like reading about how others are becoming financially independent so I thought I'd share how I am trying to do the same with condos. I am 35 in the Midwest with income around 45k. I've always liked condos because of the financial benefit of owning without exterior upkeep such as lawn care and snow removal. Currently I own 3 condos all paid off. I bought the first one when I was 20. The average condo fee is 130/month. Property taxes work out to be about 70/month. I also have a product called landlord condo insurance on the two I rent out. The insurance works out to be about 16/month. I am getting 795/month rent on each. So my monthly profit works out to be 1148. My personal reoccurring fixed expenses figured monthly are 130 condo fee, 70 property tax, 100 energy bill, 40 internet, 50 phone, 16 property insurance and 10 netflix. For a total of 416. Food and entertainment is around 700 excluding any large non reoccurring expenses per month. Reoccurring + average food and entertainment = 1116. In about 8 months I will be buying another one all cash. This will bring my monthly profit up to around 1722. In 2020 I will rent out the one I'm currently living in and move into another one using about 75% debt. This will bring my monthly profit to around 2296. At that point I will try to find a part-time job with health benefits to work 4 or so hours in the morning. Then get my real-estate license for some other side income. Hopefully the rental income will just pile up and I can use it for travelling, buying whatever I feel like or more condos. [link] [comments]  |
| Weekly Self-Promotion Thread - September 05, 2018 Posted: 05 Sep 2018 04:09 AM PDT Self-promotion (ie posting about projects/businesses that you operate and can profit from) is typically a practice that is discouraged in /r/financialindependence, and these posts are removed through moderation. This is a thread where those rules do not apply. However, please do not post referral links in this thread. Use this thread to talk about your blog, talk about your business, ask for feedback, etc. If the self-promotion starts to leak outside of this thread, we will once again return to a time where 100% of self-promotion posts are banned. Please use this space wisely. Link-only posts will be removed. Put some effort into it. [link] [comments]  |
| Any there any good Google Spreadsheet Tempates with detailed FIRE financial modeling tools? Posted: 05 Sep 2018 05:06 AM PDT I have seen some good simple input calculators that give a rough picture but I'm looking for a full model where I can input various forms of income, estimated taxes, multiple investments, as we as categorical expenses. For example my wife and I will eventually get social security as well as an inheritance. It would be good to see how this affects the model 30 years from now. I can envision how it would look, but not sure if it opens a can of worms. Thought I would check here before embarking on building one. [link] [comments]  |
| FIRE'd at the age of 34! (Or maybe not!) Posted: 04 Sep 2018 08:18 PM PDT Apologies in advanced for the click-baitish title! Long story short, I am ready and will FIRE at 34. But I'm considering taking a "bullshit" or stress-free job for personal reasons and benefits. If you want a little background of my story, please read on. If not, please go straight to the points that I have highlighted in bold below. Would love to hear your opinion/view on my choices. I am 34, M, single with no kids, and will "FIRE" in 3 months. I sat down with my boss this morning and told him why and when. After a bit of going back and forth, he was totally cool with it and thanked me for giving him 3 months instead of the typical two-week notice. Sorry, but no FIRE unicorn here. I worked in the tech field and made well over six figures for the majority of my career. I lived pretty frugally throughout my life and dumped most of my income into the stock market. As of today, my main brokerage account hovers at around 1M (actually just dipped below 1M because of today's market lol), a little under 100k in 401k, and 35k in a Roth IRA. A vast majority of my holdings in my main brokerage account are S&P 500 ETF and blue chip stocks (VOO, BRK.B, AMZN, MSFT, APPL, GOOG, NVDA, WMT, WM, T, etc. for those who care/want to know), and a small portion in more risky stocks. Both my 401k and Roth IRA are pretty much just S&P 500 ETFs. I know this amount might not be enough for some, but for me it is. At least for now. As mentioned, I have been pretty frugal throughout my life, mainly due to the fact that I grew up in a very poor household. I still remember the days when my parents came into my room to ask for my Christmas and birthday monies that our relatives gave me in order to pay for our rent. Fortunately, those days didn't last too long. My family wasn't rich or well-off per say by the time I got to high school but we lived okay for the most part. Anyway, before I go off on a tangent, basically I just want to say that that lifestyle never left me and I actually enjoy it. My FIRE budget will be at around 30k per year including taxes/fees/whatever there might be. Of course, this number will differ a little every year but my goal is to aim at around 30k every year. Definitely not losing sleep over a few grands above my target. My plan for the living situation is to move from NYC to south Florida, not sure which city yet but most likely somewhere near Miami (by near I mean 1-2 hour drive, and that can get you pretty far for you big city folks). The main reasons why I'm choosing Florida are because low cost of living and state-tax free. In NYC, let alone having a state tax, we have something called the city tax... Can't and shouldn't complain tho. If it wasn't for NYC, chances are I would not have been able to FIRE at this age. Anyhow, I have lived in Florida before and love it there, so it wasn't like I solely picked it because it was cheaper to live in. I know what I'm getting into and I know what my lifestyle will be like there. And here are my main break down of the living costs: Rent & Utils: $15000~ As a New Yorker, housings are dirt cheap in Florida. Enough said. Gas, car insurance & maintenance: $1500~ I own a 2014 Camry, fully paid off. Very little mileage (I live in NYC after all). So I'm giving myself a decent size cushion for insurance and maintenance fees here. Food: $5000~ I cook a lot, one of the reasons is being frugal. Again, I'm giving myself a huge cushion here. I have been cooking for myself for almost two decades, I know how to portion my sizes to make more meals and hunt for good deals at the groceries. Thus, I'm going to skip toiletry and cleaning products in the COL because I definitely won't be needing 5k a year for food alone, I will just treat them as part of the grocery shopping bill. Entertainment: $1000~ This is the part where most of you guys will start to dislike me. I know, I'm not a good person but it is what it is. I download and stream all my movies, shows, and music illegally. The only time showbiz can make a dime out of me is when I go to the movie theaters, which I rarely go to. I might go there 2 or 3 times per year. Maybe when I FIRE'd I will go more often but who knows. I suppose most of that $1000 will go toward my cellphone bill and Internet. Most if not all of my hobbies are free and/or low cost. I'm into cooking, swimming, hiking, running, kayaking, working out, browsing Reddit, watching movies, TV, sports, music (all free as I mentioned), etc. Travel: $2000-3000~ Who doesn't love to travel right? Well, I do for the most part but not constantly. My goal is 1 international trip and 1 domestic trip every year. Sometimes maybe even just 1 domestic or 1 international, not both. Contrary to popular opinion, I wouldn't want to travel 24/7 even if I had the money. Traveling is exhausting in my opinion, I rather take my time and see more things per location than just "to go there" just to tell people that I went to all these places. Misc & Eating out, etc: $500~ I rarely eat out. Mostly with friends. Even then I would pick the medium-priced items. Though this number can/might shoot up if I end up in a relationship. As boring as I sound, I do find going on restaurant dates very romantic and fun. That ultimately puts me at around $25000~26000 per year against my yearly income of $25500. I simply did $30000*.85 = $25500 to include the taxes/fees. Once again, some year I might live on less and some might be more, $30k is just a goal or guideline for myself. And hey, not so fast just yet, I left out one important cost that most people tend to forget about, health insurance. Which is one of the main reasons why I want to keep "working." Main reasons why I want to keep working (at a bullshit job): 1. Ironically, it gives me a sense of life. This is probably the part where some of you guys will hit the backspace or close the tab, but hear me out. "Getting out of the rat race" is just a blanket term. This statement should be put into a form of a question, why do you want to get out of the rat race? For me, social anxiety plays a huge part. While my job does provide me with a good paycheck, I suffer a lot of peer pressure from upper management and people on my team. Sitting at my computer desk at 11:30pm on a Sunday evening is one the worst feelings ever, I bet you guys can agree with me on this one. It's not only the fact that I have to get up 7 in the morning and try to catch the fully packed train, but the fact that I have a boss to answer to and people to manage the moment I step inside the office. I hide it quite well, but I often panicked in front of my subordinates and my managers. Basically running all these bad thoughts and judgements inside my head. As hideous as it sounds, if money wasn't a problem, I don't mind being the lowest guy on the totem pole at work. Nobody will judge me if I screw up the most simple thing and nobody will expect me to lead them, it's 100% stress free. Being able to drive and always have a parking spot in front of the building is also a great perk as oppose to catching a packed train with grumpy commuters (Florida can definitely provide that). I know I'm not a great writer and this isn't a good thread for a guide or anything, but if you can get anything out of this thread, make sure you test the water first before FIREing out of nowhere just because you have reached your net worth goal. Take a small sip of the hot soup first before taking a mouthful so you don't burn your tongue. Yeah, the soup is delicious but it is also freaking hot and it needs to be cooled down first. So that's exactly what I did. I purposely took 2 weeks off work with nothing scheduled ahead (no traveling, no planning stuff with family/friends ahead of time, etc.) just to get a sense of what my FIRE life would be like. The first day was amazing, I think I woke up at like 1pm and then made myself brunch. Sat around, dicked around on my PC, and that was it. Second day, repeat. Third day, I got bored and decide to hit up my friends, oh wait it was a Wed, everybody had work. So I went to the movies by myself. Fourth day, you guessed it, I got pretty bored but still enjoying the no-work life. Fifth day, I actually want to go back to work and speak with my coworkers and see some familiar faces. I mean it wasn't like, "shit, I'm dying over here, I need to be back at work ASAP. I made a huge mistake!" It was just that the thought suddenly crossed my mind and that I was bored out of my mind. Next two days were okay because I finally got to hang out with my friends and family. The following week was straight up, "what the fuck am I doing with my life?" I don't want to make it sound like it was hell and that I was suffering or anything, but I can totally see myself not being happy over time and may even fall into a depression in the long run. I really sat down and thought about it, it won't be weeks or months, but years of this. I think finding a motive in life is very important. Again, as ironic as it sounds, I think a 9-5 stress-free work schedule might just keep me sane. Of course, this is what I think will work for me. I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong. Just find what works best for yourself. And as bad as it sounds (you gotta plan for the worst right?), what if you really didn't enjoy FIRE and want to go back to your old job? It might just be a little too late by then. 2. Health Insurance This is a big one. I wonder if many of you FIRE'd people are running into the same problem. I care about my health a lot and would want to continue to go to the dentist twice a year and my physical once a year even after I FIRE'd. But health insurance is so freaking expensive without employer's help so I don't know anymore. If I can land a bullshit job where they can relief some of those insurance payments, I would definitely start working again. 3. 401k I think this one is pretty self-explanatory. I want to continue to invest even after I FIRE'd, and one of the best investing vehicles is the 401k as it provides many tax advantages. And this goes back to my point that "my 1M net work might not be enough for some, but for me it is, for now." I see 401k as my ultimately safety net for the times I really can't work anymore. I want to continue to beef up this account, if possible. 4. Resume, beer money, socialize Continuing from the third point, what if 1M really won't last me and I will have to go back to work before my 401k and social security kick in. I don't see how not having a X amount of year gap of work will hurt me if I were to go back into the rat race. In fact, I can probably use it to show that I never really left the workforce on my resume during the job hunt. Either way, it will look better than having a huge gap of no work experience for sure. And of course, having few extra bucks won't hurt. Plus, meeting new people and chatting with coworkers is always fun. Lastly, everything is still up in the air for the rest of my life. I'm still single and unsure if I will have kids. I might just need that extra dough and/or going back to work in case a kid or two pop out. Anyway, bullshit jobs are basically what I'm only willing to apply to and/or work for again (for now). I am thinking of some simple office job where I just do some photocopying, typing up emails, updating data, etc. Dick around for 5, work for 3, and then go home. I also thought about being a security guard. Would love to hear some suggestions on bullshit jobs to apply for. Pay is basically out of the equation for me, as long as I don't have much to do and have decent benefits, I will even take a minimum wage job if needed. And most importantly, what do you guys think of my plan of continuing working (at a bullshit job)? [link] [comments]  |
| What was/is an area of friction or difficulty you have experienced on your path to FI/RE? Posted: 05 Sep 2018 05:02 PM PDT I am starting off on my journey to FI (maybe RE) and am looking for areas where you have struggled while saving and following your own guidelines of personal finance. Was it something with your savings rate? spouse? income? [link] [comments]  |
| Posted: 05 Sep 2018 07:14 AM PDT I've had a good run in the stock market, but as I approach my mid-50s and think about retirement, I'm thinking of selling stocks to pay the mortgage. It's at 3.5% with approx 175K left (8 year, $2K per month), and stocks in my regular brokerage fund could cover that with a bit left over and I could also cover the cap gains taxes from selling. I'm on Coast FI, taking work from clients, and my income has been slowing. It would be disappointing to miss out on future gains from that 175K, but in the event of a downturn (and who knows if and when that will come), having missed the opportunity to pay my mortgage would be, frankly, tragic. It would really set me back. Once the mortgage is gone, my monthlies will be $2K (Manhattan), and my other holdings (just under $1M) can easily weather that. I'd be okay forever. As it is now, I worry every day about the next few years and this mortgage is hanging over my head. Am I missing something? Thanks. [link] [comments]  |
| Posted: 04 Sep 2018 11:50 PM PDT I was hoping to get some advice on weighing housing in a high COL area vs trying to attain FIRE. I live in a very desirable area, with high cost of living. Most houses in my area are 700-800k for fixer uppers. Moving out of the area is not at option at this point, as I have a good job, network and have developed roots in the area. However, I am getting tired of living in a small and crappy apartment with housemates. I am a pretty decent saver (270k in taxable accounts, 340k in 401k/IRA), and have almost all my money in index funds. A down payment would cut out a sizable chunk of my nest egg. Then I'd have a much higher housing payment vs. my low rent (under 1000/mo) AND have to throw more money at the house for repairs/renovations. However, I'd at least have a locked in housing payment and be able to begin transitioning to the next stages of my life (marriage and maybe children). Also, as a 31 year old individual who has been maxing out my 401k for the past 8 years (and IRA for the past 4 years), is there a point where it might be worth it to start tapering off contributions to the retirement accounts? I'm starting to reach the point income-wise where I can't contribute the full 5.5K to a Roth IRA anyway. Any and all constructive advice/criticisms welcome. [link] [comments]  |
| Mark Cuban says an early book on FIRE helped him earn his first $1 million Posted: 05 Sep 2018 03:09 PM PDT Cuban cites Cashing in on the American Dream: How to Retire at 35 by Paul Terhorst (published in 1988) as an early source of inspiration and guidance. [link] [comments]  |
| Posted: 05 Sep 2018 07:28 AM PDT Personally, I max my employer matching in my 401k, max a Roth for myself, max a Roth for my wife, and max an ESA for each of my two kids. However, I know that an ESA maxed for 10-15 years, probably won't come close to covering their college expenses. How much do you plan to help out with your kids' higher education? And at what expense/delay to your FIRE plans? [link] [comments]  |
| New to this sub with a quick question Posted: 05 Sep 2018 04:07 PM PDT I read though a number of the post and comments on this sub and I can feel the motivation already. The reason I found this sub is that my husband and I decided to sell out rental home to pay off all of our debt, including the car and house. Currently the rental brings in $1500 a month and then we have to pay our $320 to the HOA a month and then $1600 in state taxes each year. Profit $12,560 as long as no maintenance is required. It is out of state. Our current mortgage is $1300 with about remaining $206k at 2.75 % and a value of $360k. We are going to try to get $325k for the rental. If all goes to plan, hopefully, we will have over $65k. Our plan is to hold on to it till it becomes a buyer's market in our area and either upgrade our home or buy another rental. Where is the best place to store the money? Any advice? Is there something better to do than invest into another rental home? We bring in about 6k together a month, but have three small kids so we pay 2k a month on their school. [link] [comments]  |
| Betterment article on investing your safety net / emergency fund Posted: 05 Sep 2018 12:56 PM PDT I came across a Betterment article recently on emergency funds - it suggests investing 130% of your emergency fund needs into a 40/60 stocks/bonds portfolio. It's a bit old, and obviously another way for Betterment to get more of it's clients' money, and of course YMMV when it comes to one's risk tolerance and emergency funds (one needs to be able to sleep at night). In spite of all this, I'm still curious - does anyone here follow a similar strategy? https://www.betterment.com/resources/safety-net-funds-why-traditional-advice-is-wrong/ [link] [comments]  |
| (28 m) getting FIRE'd. (so close to $100k net worth) Posted: 05 Sep 2018 10:46 AM PDT I am doing this self post because I don't have anyone inside my monkeysphere to tell. 401k = $24k personal saving/checking = $10k HSA = $7k Roth IRA = $51k pension = $1.5k NW=$93.5k I recently got a job that actually has a 401k, I am really excited about it and am currently matching the 2018 limit of $18,500 base salary is $70k/year (not including overtime) I am currently married and am not including my spouses income because we have separate finances(out of apathy mostly) I honestly am not sure what age I want to retire or how much I will actually need, all I know is that I am moderately frugal and am an avid saver. do you guys have any advice for me? I reach the yearly max limit on the Roth IRA and 401k. I am currently not investing the HSA money, I kinda want to wait until the market dips/crashes so I can have a pool of money to invest when it is low. I am going to start putting $500 a paycheck(starting next check) into a fidelity account to invest in the S&P500. Is there anything more I can be doing? I am not sure if I am missing anything huge that i could be taking advantage of. [link] [comments]  |
| Keeping up with the FIRE jonses Posted: 05 Sep 2018 11:24 AM PDT The opposite of the other post. Does anyone have any charts that show net worth average/median/top10%/bottom10% (or similar) by age and by country? I find the aggregate net worth statistics to be rather useless. For example, most rich people are also old and American. What would be really interesting is to see how things change with each year of life, statistically, and geographically. [link] [comments]  |
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