Financial Independence Daily FI discussion thread - October 24, 2020 |
- Daily FI discussion thread - October 24, 2020
- I left a FAANG pre-FI for a more fulfilling job and took more than a 50% pay cut. It was not everything I expected it to be.
- Keeping finances separate from your spouse?
- What’s everyone’s thoughts on George Gammon’s latest video?
| Daily FI discussion thread - October 24, 2020 Posted: 24 Oct 2020 01:08 AM PDT Please use this thread to have discussions which you don't feel warrant a new post to the sub. While the Rules for posting questions on the basics of personal finance/investing topics are relaxed a little bit here, the rules against memes/spam/self-promotion/excessive rudeness/politics still apply! Have a look at the FAQ for this subreddit before posting to see if your question is frequently asked. Since this post does tend to get busy, consider sorting the comments by "new" (instead of "best" or "top") to see the newest posts. [link] [comments]  |
| Posted: 24 Oct 2020 11:42 AM PDT But it was some of the things I expected it to be. This is my first post here, though I've been commenting on this sub for a while now, and I lurked long before that. I want to share my story because I think it will resonate with many people here, and maybe it will help some people. It probably will most closely resonate with people of a similar background: tech workers who are feeling jaded after working at a large tech company for a few years. However, I think it could be relatable for anyone considering leaving a comfortable but unfulfilling job, in search for something more meaningful. This post is not going to cover many specifics about financials or financial advice, but a FI mindset strongly influenced my decision-making. It's a common topic of this sub to experience a longing for more fulfilling work, especially once you have FU money or are approaching coastFI, and having made the leap about 9 months ago I think I have some insight about how things can turn out if you choose to take a leap of faith. I also fully acknowledge that many on this sub don't experience a need for more fulfilling work; several of you find other means of fulfillment and just want to FIRE ASAP, period, and that is totally fine, but this post may be less relevant to you. BackgroundI joined a FAANG as a software dev after graduating college. I was fortunate to graduate with less than 10k in debt, and I paid it off quickly. I performed well and was promoted after about two years. As my NW increased, it felt like blinders were slowly being removed from my eyes. Like many people on here, I had a lot of anxiety about financial security growing up - so much so that getting a high paying job was virtually all I thought about since I was in high school. As my NW hit 100k, I started to feel somewhat secure about money and my employability; I took a step back and started to realize that I was never going to feel fulfilled by the work I was doing (which involved working on an interesting but not very impactful smartphone feature). Without as much financial anxiety, I was able to give myself space to reflect and understand what my real goals were - something I had neglected for a long time. I tried to make it work on my old team. I thought that if I found the right kind of role or peer group, I could tolerate not feeling like my work was that important. But I knew deep down that wouldn't be the case. I also looked for opportunities on other teams. I think this could have worked out. I found one opening that seemed like it would be a work style I liked better (TSE rather than SWE), and in an area that felt more impactful (healthcare). But I ended up finding an opportunity elsewhere that was more risky but seemed potentially more rewarding for me. Reflections and the next opportunityIn my reflections, I realized I really regretted not taking more humanities and social science classes in college. I barrelled through the CS curriculum with tunnel vision, intent only on getting a job at a FAANG or similar. I had always wanted to study psychology, but, coming from a family of engineers, voices in my head always told me that wasn't a "real" field. Additionally, I started to feel a growing need to do work that was impactful and helped people. I think anyone might feel this longing, but I think those from marginalized communities such as myself might be especially likely to feel this need to give back. As my confidence in my abilities and skills grew, it started to feel ridiculous that I wasn't using them for social good. I began searching for career paths that would scratch my itch to learn about more social science fields, and that would be impactful in ways I found fulfilling. I still wanted to work in something at least partially technical, since I wanted to make use of my skill set. I eventually found a not-for-profit research center nearby that focused on applying computational methods to complex social problems, varying from sex trafficking to religious extremism. I reached out to the organization, and ended up meeting some staff to discuss the field and what I might do to get involved. I was hoping for some PhD program recommendations, which they gave (for anyone wondering, they recommended I apply to CS or Engineering programs, and specialize in something like computational social science). But it also turned out that they had a grant that was getting dispersed in the next month, and someone with my background would be appropriate for one of the roles in that project. At that time, I had about 110k in retirement accounts, 70k in taxable accounts, and around 10-15k cash. I was 24 years old. Arguably, I was lean-coastFI, meaning if I didnt save anything more, I could probably be leanFI by retirement age just on the savings that compounded. I don't remember the exact numbers, but at my old job I was probably making close to 200k/yr including RSUs and bonus. I got an offer for the other job, and the pay was 88k - not a terrible salary but definitely a huge cut - still, I was expecting 65-70k, so I was a bit surprised. Healthcare benefits were similar. Retirement options and general perks were better at the FAANG but not terrible at the other org. I thought about it a lot. I met the staff at the org multiple times to feel it out as best I could. I tried to keep myself in check, but I'll admit that I was very hopeful and idealistic that taking this opportunity was going to give my work so much more meaning, and that the pay cut was going to be totally worth it. 9 months later: the grass is not as green as I thought it would be, but it is still greenerThere are days when my work is everything I thought it would be; I get to step into a really interesting and impactful research project, and unblock or build upon it using my tech/CS background. Or, I get to learn about interesting research and apply a computational lens to it. When my days are like this, the adage "Find work you love and you will never work a day in your life" really feels true. But, this is not every day. Sometimes I'll go weeks or months without one of these days, and it sucks. Just like my old job, there are some projects that are isolating, chaotic, or too unstructured. On these days, it can feel like work is work, and FI is the only way to achieve balance. Add in life changes due to the pandemic, and it's been a really rough few months. (To be clear, the pandemic had not started when I accepted the job offer. I'm not sure how that would have affected my decision-making, but I'm sure it would have shaken things up a bit.) While it has only been 9 months, and some of the most unprecedented months at that, these are the lessons I've learned about taking the leap for a more fulfilling job. These are as much lessons about myself as they are about the world I live in; I'm sure some of these simply do not apply to you, but I like to think that some of you will benefit from reading this. I repeat: I do not claim these to be universal truths. Purpose and fulfillment are forward-thinking, long-term concepts, not something that is lived day to dayWhen I started this job, I'll admit a part of me expected everyday to be dramatically more fulfilling than my old job. This is simply not the case. Yes, some days are exhilarating in a way that my old job never could be, but many days are not. That being said, when I think about what I could accomplish in 3, 5, or 10 years at this current position, I am significantly more content with the possibilities here than at my old job. When I think about the experience I am getting at this job, I know that it's putting me on a track toward being the professional/field-expert I want to be - even if I were to end up changing jobs or the company dies. I now believe that this is what purpose and fulfillment from a career means for me. It doesn't mean changing someone's life every single day - though I imagine it could be like that in other fields like medical professions or social work, for instance. But, even those fields, I imagine, are going to have down days where even the best efforts don't seem to make a difference (… and that's all I'll project onto professions I have no experience in). You need to be fulfilled by the long term potential, because day-to-day wins/losses are not going to be sustainably fulfilling. A fulfilling job is still a jobSome of my projects are less interesting than others. Sometimes I have to work on a project that I don't think has a lot of potential for impact. Sometimes a project is isolating or poorly managed. Some days I feel like a codemonkey/grunt and not the creative professional I strive to be. During my first several months, these realities hit hard. I thought, "Why am I doing this when I know I'm capable of doing better things?" What I've learned is that sometimes it's best to take a step back, sort of put yourself on autopilot with your job, and put less symbolic meaning into it. Similar to how you set up auto-deposits into your market accounts, you have to look towards the future and ask yourself, "Is the direction I am headed toward one that I am proud of? Will it, to the best of my knowledge, give me experiences that I want to have had in the long term?" If the answer is yes, let that be the end of it: treat your job like a job and let your time on it accumulate. Have no expectations about your day to day experience. Just like the market, my workdays have dramatic up and down swings. I have to assume that if I am properly allocated (metaphorically), my professional "net worth" will trend upward, and not let myself feel despair during a "crash." (I hope this metaphor makes sense…) Another way of thinking about this: internal motivation is not always reliable. Some days I'm not super motivated to work on projects that I actually really like. On these days, I'm reminded that a fulfilling job is still a job, and to expect otherwise can lead to disappointment. I try not to lose sight of the fact that I am where, to the best of my knowledge, I want to be - even if it occasionally does not feel like it. Being around people who share your values is extremely important, but it's not all that mattersOne of the things I love about my job is that everyone in the org is dedicated to the organization's goals, and these goals are ones that strongly resonate with me. The same could not be said, IMO, about my old job. However, there are much fewer people with my professional background (software/CS) here than my old job, and sometimes that can be isolating. Especially when working on less desirable projects. I knew from the get-go that there would be fewer devs I'd be interacting with, but that didn't stop it from getting a bit painful at times. Thankfully, I have been able to advocate with some success that we get more engineers on a project. And, there is some reasonable expectation of growth in the next year, such that we should be able to hire a few more devs I will work closely with. I guess the advice here is do not expect that being around people with shared values will always be an adequate substitute for the kind of collaboration that only comes from working with people with a similar professional background. You need both. You may still need to seek out external professional development in order to meet your goalsOne of my goals when I got my new job was to learn about new fields. In particular, social sciences. At first, I thought that given the dramatic career shift I made, I would meet this goal primarily through my work. And, some days I do. But, as is becoming a trend in this post, this is not always my daily experience. I have decided to pursue extension school classes in psychology to fill this goal so that I can reliably fulfill it. I plan to get a certification in the next year or two, and potentially continue to a master's degree over the next five years. I took a class last spring, and while I did not take a class this fall, I have decided to dedicate some time everyday to reading a textbook or research paper in an area of my interest. This way, I am meeting my learning goal nearly every day, even on days when I am not learning on the job. I find it essential to set up a routine where I am reliably fulfilling this goal, otherwise I get very down. You won't feel fulfilled by your job if you are not happy with your home lifeThe pandemic is a good case study for this. The last several months have been very destabilizing to my home environment, and this made it really difficult to tolerate downswings at work. There has, at times, been a temptation to quit and try something else. But, in retrospect, this temptation came more from the uncertainty about the world and what my personal life would look like in it. My SO and I have made a lot of changes to adapt to a COVID-19 world, and I can say that finally having what feels like a stable and pandemic-safe home-life balance really alleviates my temptation to run. Sometimes I think I feel a temptation to leave work just so that I can feel like, for a second, I have control over my life during a time in which there are such extreme external circumstances that are outside of my control. If you think you cannot apply your skillset/experience to a new field, you are probably wrongWhen I started looking for other jobs, I thought I wouldn't be able to do the kind of work I wanted without going back to school. But that was not the only option, and it probably is not for most people considering a career change. Do the legwork to find organizations that resonate with you, and reach out to see if/how you can apply your background. Sometimes things work out in unexpected ways, so have faithI felt stuck in a project that really didn't resonate with me for a while. But I kept working on it, even though there were times where I dragged my feet. I didn't want to make a stink when I was so new to the job. Over time, though, it became clear that this project could have other applications that actually much more strongly aligned with my interests. And, other parties started to become very interested in these new applications. I still have some reservations, but, overall, a situation that felt a bit bleak did get better. I'll remember this in the future, and try not to get too down about situations that feel bad in the moment. Great managers exist and are so much better than good managersAt my old job, I had three managers. One was OK - his management style did not mesh well with me, but I think it was a style that worked for some. The other two were pretty good. It's hard to think of complaints. But my current manager continuously surprises me with their level of understanding and compassion. I feel much more at ease discussing issues that I am facing because I know I will be listened to without judgement. The verdict: Was it worth it?The short answer is that 9 months is not enough time to definitively judge if it was worth it. But, I've had a lot of ups and downs in these 9 months (as we all have), and I can say that I am still very hopeful about the future, even if I did have some less hopeful moments. I've done some really cool things, and I feel good about the direction I'm headed. Additionally, my salary was raised to 93k (from 88k), and there are plans that, if go well, may increase my salary to 120k in 2021. So, it's within the realm of possibility that I could still be making a reasonably competitive salary again one day… And yet, the money feels more like a perk than the main draw to the job. I've made peace with some of the realities that I was maybe too idealistic about in the beginning, but my level of existential contentment is still much higher than it was. I'm at a point where I feel reasonably confident that this career switch was a good choice in my life. And, if I can feel that way even when we are knee-deep in a pandemic, I think it's likely a reliable assessment. Edit/TLDR: The positives seem to have outweighed the negatives for now, but there were still negatives and it is still a job. I'm happy I made the leap; the grass is greener but not in quite all the ways I had hoped. [link] [comments]  |
| Keeping finances separate from your spouse? Posted: 23 Oct 2020 08:57 PM PDT My husband earns significantly more than I do and is about 5 years away from achieving FI. He is very adamant about splitting expenses 50/50 (we live below our means) and keeping his portion of our joint investment earnings separate from mine. When I asked how I should feel about this in r/relationships I was basically told that it's inconceivable for a married couple to not have joint finances and that he's selfish. He says it is so that he can RE and know he is still contributing financially to our lifestyle, which I understand. I'm curious how people here handle their finances if they are in a domestic partnership. Editing to clarify: I'm a happily self-employed creative entrepreneur with no desire to retire. My husband wants to retire early to join me in creative pursuits [link] [comments]  |
| What’s everyone’s thoughts on George Gammon’s latest video? Posted: 24 Oct 2020 03:12 PM PDT Gammon's Billionaire's give Dire warning to average investors popped up on YouTube and I watched it, and I was curious on everyone's thoughts on it [link] [comments]  |
| You are subscribed to email updates from financial independence / early retirement. To stop receiving these emails, you may unsubscribe now. | Email delivery powered by Google |
| Google, 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway, Mountain View, CA 94043, United States | |
No comments:
Post a Comment