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    Tuesday, January 9, 2018

    Personal Finance Crypto-Currency: A Guide to Common Tax Situations

    Personal Finance Crypto-Currency: A Guide to Common Tax Situations


    Crypto-Currency: A Guide to Common Tax Situations

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 10:54 AM PST

    Introduction

    All,

    Based on the rapid increase in popularity and price of bitcoin and other crypto currencies (particularly over the past year), I expect that lots of people have questions about how crypto currency will impact their taxes. This thread attempts to address several common issues. I'm posting similar versions of it here, in several major crypto subs, and eventually in the weekly "tax help" threads r/personalfinance runs.

    I'd like to thank the /r/personalfinance mod team and the /r/tax community for their help with this thread and especially for reading earlier versions and offering several valuable suggestions/corrections.

    This thread is NOT an endorsement of crypto currency as an investing strategy. There is a time and a place to debate the appropriateness of crypto as part of a diversified portfolio - but that time is not now and that place is not here. If you are interested in the general consensus of this sub on investing, I would urge you to consult the wiki while keeping in mind the general flowchart outlining basic steps to get your finances in order.

    Finally, please note that this thread attempts to provide information about your tax obligations as defined by United States law (and interpreted by the IRS under the direction of the Treasury Department). I understand that a certain portion of the crypto community tends to view crypto as "tax free" due to the (actual and perceived) difficulty for the IRS to "know" about the transactions involved. I will not discuss unlawfully concealing crypto gains here nor will I suggest illegal tax avoidance activities.


    The Basics

    This section is best for people that don't understand much about taxes. It covers some very basic tax principles. It also assumes that all you did during the year was buy/sell a single crypto currency.

    Fundamentally, the IRS treats crypto not as money, but as an asset (investment). While there are a few specific "twists" when it comes to crypto, when in doubt replace the word "crypto" with the word "stock" and you will get a pretty good idea how you should report and pay tax on crypto.

    The first thing you should know is that the majority of this discussion applies to the taxes you are currently working on (2017 taxes). The tax bill that just passed applies to 2018 taxes (with a few very tiny exceptions), which most people will file in early 2019.

    In general, you don't have to report or pay taxes on crypto currency holdings until you "cash out" all or part of your holdings. For now, I'm going to assume that you cash out by selling them for USD; however, other forms of cashing out will be covered later.

    When you sell crypto, you report the difference between your basis (purchase price) and proceeds (sale price) on Schedule D. Your purchase price is commonly referred to as your basis; while the two terms don't mean exactly the same thing, they are pretty close to one another (in particular, there are three two ways to calculate your basis - your average cost, a first-in, first-out method, and a "specific identification" method. See more about these here and here). EDIT - you may not use average cost method with crypto - see here. If you sell at a gain, this gain increases your tax liability; if you sell at a loss, this loss decreases your tax liability (in most cases). If you sell multiple times during the year, you report each transaction separately (bad news if you trade often) but get to lump all your gains/losses together when determining how the trades impact your income.

    One important thing to remember is that there are two different types of gains/losses from investments - short term gains (if you held an asset for one year or less) and long term gains (over one year; i.e. one year and one day). Short term gains are taxed at your marginal income rate (basically, just like if you had earned that money at a job) while long term gains are taxed at lower rates.

    For most people, long term capital gains are taxed at 15%. However, if you are in the 10% or 15% tax bracket, congrats - your gains (up to the maximum amount of "unused space" in your bracket) are tax free! If you are in the 25%, 28%, 33%, or 35% bracket, long term gains are taxed at 15%. If you are in the 39.6% bracket, long term gains are taxed at 20%. Additionally, there is an "extra" 3.8% tax that applies to gains for those above $200,000/$250,000 (single/married). The exact computation of this tax is a little complicated, but if you are close to the $200,000 level, just know that it exists.

    Finally, you should know that I'm assuming that you should treat your crypto gains/losses as investment gains/losses. I'm sure some people will try and argue that they are really "day traders" of crypto and trade as a full time job. While this is possible, the vast majority of people don't qualify for this status and you should really think several times before deciding you want to try that approach on the IRS.


    "Cashing Out" - Trading Crypto for Goods/Services

    I realize that not everyone that "cashes out" of crypto does so by selling it for USD. In fact, I understand that some in the crypto community view the necessity of cashing out itself as a type of myth. In this section, I discuss what happens if you trade your crypto for basically anything that isn't cash (minor sidenote - see next section for a special discussion on trading crypto for crypto; i.e. buying altcoins with crypto).

    The IRS views trading crypto for something of value as a type of bartering that must be included in income. From the IRS's perspective, it doesn't matter if you sold crypto for cash and bought a car with that cash or if you just traded crypto directly for the car - in both cases, the IRS views you as having sold your crypto. This approach isn't unique to crypto - it works the same way if you trade stock for something.

    This means that if you do trade your crypto for "stuff", you have to report every exchange as a sale of your crypto and calculate the gain/loss on that sale, just as if you had sold the crypto for cash.

    Finally, there is one important exception to this rule. If you give your crypto away to charity (one recognized by the IRS; like a 501(c)(3) organization), the IRS doesn't make you report/pay any capital gains on the transaction. Additionally, you still get to deduct the value of your donation on the date it was made. Now, from a "selfish" point of view, you will always end up with more money if you sell the crypto, pay the tax, and keep the rest. But, if you are going to make a donation anyway, especially a large one, giving crypto where you have a big unrealized/untaxed gain is a very efficient way of doing so.


    "Alt Coins" - Buying Crypto with Crypto

    The previous section discusses what happens when you trade crypto for stuff. However, one thing that surprises many people is that trading crypto for crypto is also a taxable event, just like trading crypto for a car. Whether you agree with this position or not, it makes a lot of sense once you realize that the IRS doesn't view crypto as money, but instead as an asset. So to the IRS, trading bitcoin for ripple isn't like trading dollars for euros, but it is instead like trading shares of Apple stock for shares of Tesla stock.

    Practically, what this means is that if you trade one crypto for another crypto (say BTC for XRP just to illustrate the point), the IRS views you as doing the following:

    • Selling for cash the amount of BTC you actually traded for XRP.
    • Owing capital gains/losses on the BTC based on its selling price (the fair market value at the moment of the exchange) and your purchase price (basis).
    • Buying a new investment (XRP) with a cost basis equal to the amount the BTC was worth when you exchanged them.

    This means that if you "time" your trade wrong and the value of XRP goes down after you make the exchange, you still owe tax on your BTC gain even though you subsequently lost money. The one good piece of news in this is that when/if you sell your XRP (or change it back to BTC), you will get a capital loss for the value that XRP dropped.

    There is one final point worth discussing in this section - the so called "like kind exchange" rules (aka section 1031 exchange). At a high level, these rules say that you can "swap" property with someone else without having to pay taxes on the exchange as long as you get property in return that is "like kind". Typically, these rules are used in real estate transactions. However, they can also apply to other types of transactions as well.

    While the idea is simple (and makes it sound like crypto for crypto should qualify), the exact rules/details of this exception are very fact specific. Most experts (including myself, but certainly not calling myself an expert) believe that a crypto for crypto swap is not a like kind exchange. The recently passed tax bill also explicitly clarifies this issue - starting in 2018, only real estate qualifies for like kind exchange treatment. So, basically, the vast majority of evidence suggests that you can't use this "loophole" for 2017; however, there is a small minority view/some small amount of belief that this treatment would work for 2017 taxes and it is worth noting that I'm unaware of any court cases directly testing this approach.


    Dealing with "Forks"

    Perhaps another unpleasant surprise for crypto holders is that "forks" to create a new crypto also very likely generate a taxable event. The IRS has long (since at least the 1960s) held that "found" money is a taxable event. This approach has been litigated in court and courts have consistently upheld this position; it even has its own cool nerdy tax name - the "treasure trove" doctrine.

    Practically, what this means is that if you owned BTC and it "forked" to create BCH, then the fair market value of the BCH you received is considered a "treasure trove" that must be reported as income (ordinary income - no capital gain rates). This is true whether or not you sold your BCH; if you got BCH from a fork, that is a taxable event (note - I'll continue using BTC forking to BCH in this section as an example, but the logic applies to all forks).

    While everything I've discussed up to this point is pretty clearly established tax law, forks are really where things get messy with taxes. Thus, the remainder of this section contains more speculation than elsewhere in this post - the truth is that while the idea is simple (fork = free money = taxable), the details are messy and other kinds of tax treatment might apply to forks.

    One basic practical problem with forks is that the new currency doesn't necessarily start trading immediately. Thus, you may have received BCH before there was a clear price or market for it. Basically, you owe tax on the value of BCH when you received it, but it isn't completely clear what that value was. There are several ways you can handle this; I'll list them in order from most accurate to least accurate (but note that this is just my personal view and there is ongoing disagreement on this issue with little/no authoritative guidance).

    • Use a futures market to determine the value of the BCH - if reliable sources published realistic estimates of what BCH will trade for in the future once trading begins, use this estimate as the value of your BCH. Pros/cons - futures markets are, in theory, pretty accurate. However, if they are volatile/subject to manipulation, they may provide an incorrect estimate of the true value of BCH. It would suck to use the first futures value published only to have that value plummet shortly thereafter, leaving you to pay ordinary income tax but only have an unrealized capital loss.

    • Wait until an exchange starts trading BCH; use the actual ("spot" price) as the value. Pros/cons - spot prices certainly reflect what you could have sold BCH for; however, it is possible that the true value of the coin was higher/lower when you received it as compared to when it started trading on the exchange. Thus this method seems less accurate to me than a futures based approach, but it is still certainly fairly reasonable.

    • Assume that the value is $0. This is my least preferred option, but there is still a case to be made for it. If you receive something that you didn't want, can't access, can't sell, and might fail, does it have any value? I believe the answer is yes (maybe not value it perfectly, but value it somewhat accurately), but if you honestly think the answer is no, then the correct tax answer would be to report $0 in income from the fork. The IRS would be most likely to disagree with this approach, especially since it results in the least amount of income reported for the current year (and the most favorable rates going forward). Accordingly, if you go this route, make extra sure you understand what it entails.

    Note, once you've decided what to report as taxable income, this amount also becomes your cost basis in the new crypto (BCH). Thus, when you ultimately sell your BCH (or trade it for something else as described above), you calculate your gain/loss based on what you included in taxable income from the fork.

    Finally, there is one more approach to dealing with forks worth mentioning. A fork "feels" a lot like a dividend - because you held BTC, you get BCH. In a stock world, if I get a cash dividend because I own the stock, that money is not treated as a "treasure trove" and subject to ordinary income rates - in most cases, it is a qualified dividend and subject to capital gain rates; in some cases, some types of stock dividends are completely non taxable. This article discusses this idea in slightly more detail and generally concludes that forks should not be treated as a dividend. Still, I would note that I'm unaware of any court cases directly testing this theory.

    Ultimately, this post is supposed to be practical, so let me make sure to leave you with two key thoughts about the taxation of forks. First, I believe that the majority of evidence suggests that forks should be treated as a "treasure trove" and reported as ordinary income based on their value at creation and that this is certainly the "safest" option. Second, out of everything discussed in this post, I also believe that the correct taxation of forks is the murkiest and most "up for debate" area. If you are interested in a more detailed discussion of forks, see this thread for a previous version of this post discussing it at even more length and the comments for a discussion of this with the r/tax community.


    Mining Crypto

    Successfully mining crypto coins is a taxable event. Depending on the amount of effort you put into mining, it is either considered a hobby or a self-employment (business) activity. The IRS provides the following list of questions to help decide the correct classification:

    • The manner in which the taxpayer carries on the activity.
    • The expertise of the taxpayer or his advisors.
    • The time and effort expended by the taxpayer in carrying on the activity.
    • Expectation that assets used in activity may appreciate in value.
    • The success of the taxpayer in carrying on other similar or dissimilar activities.
    • The taxpayer's history of income or losses with respect to the activity.
    • The amount of occasional profits, if any, which are earned.

    If this still sounds complicated, that's because the distinction is subject to some amount of interpretation. As a rule of thumb, randomly mining crypto on an old computer is probably a hobby; mining full time on a custom rig is probably a business.

    In either event, you must include in income the fair market value of any coins you successfully mine. These are ordinary income and your basis in these coins is their fair market value on the date they were mined. If your mining is a hobby, they go on line 21 (other income) and any expenses directly associated with mining go on schedule A (miscellaneous subject to 2% of AGI limitation). If your mining is a business, income and expenses go on schedule C.

    Both approaches have pros and cons - hobby income isn't subject to the 15.3% self-employment tax, only normal income tax, but you get fewer deductions against your income and the deductions you get are less valuable. Business income has more deductions available, but you have to pay payroll (self-employment) tax of about 15.3% in addition to normal income tax.


    What if I didn't keep good records? Do I really have to report every transaction?

    One nice thing about the IRS treating crypto as an asset is that we can look at how the IRS treats people that "day trade" stock and often don't keep great records/have lots of transactions. While you need to be as accurate as possible, it is ok to estimate a little bit if you don't have exact records (especially concerning your cost basis). You need to put in some effort (research historical prices, etc...) and be reasonable, but the IRS would much rather you do a little bit of reasonable estimation as opposed to just not reporting anything. Sure, they might decide to audit you/disagree with some specifics, but you earn yourself a lot of credit if you can show that you honestly did the best you reasonably could and are making efforts to improve going forward.

    However, concerning reporting every transaction - yes, sorry, it is clear that you have to do this, even if you made hundreds or thousands of them. Stock traders have had to go through this for many decades, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that the IRS would accept anything less from the crypto community. If you have the records or have any reasonable way of obtaining records/estimating them, you must report every transaction.


    What if I don't trust you?

    Well, first let me say that I can't believe you made it all the way down here to this section. Thanks for giving me an honest hearing. I would strongly encourage you to go read other well-written, honest guides. I'll link to some I like (both more technical IRS type guides and more crypto community driven guides). While a certain portion of the crypto community seems to view one of the benefits of crypto as avoiding all government regulation (including taxes), I've been pleasantly surprised to find that many crypto forums contain well reasoned, accurate tax guides. While I may not agree with 100% of their conclusions, that likely reflects true uncertainty around tax law that is fundamentally complex rather than an attempt on either end to help individuals unlawfully avoid taxes.

    IRS guides

    Non-IRS guides

    submitted by /u/Mrme487
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    I used to follow a zero-based budget because that's what everyone recommends, but I switched to an automatic budget and boosted my savings rate significantly

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 11:20 AM PST

    Tl;dr: Use a few different checking accounts to physically separate money for bills and money for checking, as well as savings accounts, and AUTOMATE EVERYTHING: bill payment, spending money, and savings/retirement. After this is done your only job is to monitor the Spending account, that's it. Make sure it doesn't hit $0.

    So as the title said, I used to attempt to do a zero-based budget because that seems to be everyone's recommendation, because "you can't save if you don't track every penny". I felt like a part-time accountant trying to balance my budget, and sucked at it. I was constantly pulling money from one category because I overspent in another category, and I just never got to a point where my finances were being well-managed. I also didn't feel like I was saving a lot, because I wasn't.

    I ran across another type of budget, one that I had never encountered, called an automatic budget. This is where you automate as much of your finances as you can, which includes: paying bills, automatic transfers to savings/retirement, and automatic transfers into other checking accounts which are your spending categories. That's right, with this budget, instead of having one large pile of money and not being able to tell what category anything belongs to without software or a spreadsheet, you have a few checking accounts (it's up to you how many you want) and you label each checking account, one for bills, one for your spending money, and any others you need (my wife and I have a joint Groceries account and each have a debit card so we can both easily purchase groceries). You'll also have savings accounts with your emergency fund, other savings goals (recommended to have a separate savings account for each goal), and then retirement.

    Here's how it works:

    On the 1st of the month, even if you get paid twice a month, this is when all of your automatic transfers take place, we'll use the example that you have $2,000 for the month (doesn't matter if you get paid $2,000 once a month or $1,000 twice a month, you'll bugdet the same:

    These numbers are just an example budget

    • $2,000 is deposited into your Bills checking account.

    • $1,000 is saved in here for your monthly bills/rent/mortgage

    • $100 is automatically transferred to your Spending checking account

    • $200 is automatically transferred into your Groceries account

    • $200 is automatically transferred into your savings account

    • $200 is automatically transferred to your retirement (either after it gets deposited or before it hits your bank account)

    • $300 this amount is left and is not assigned to anything, it's best to leave some money as a buffer, you don't want your account to ever hit $0.

    Ok so what is your job after you have set up all of these automatic transfers to pay bills, save, and invest for retirement? Monitor the spending account. That's it. That's your job. Make sure it doesn't hit $0. I get a text from my bank every morning with the balance in my Spending account.

    What if I use a credit card? You'll do the same as above, but instead of directly spending from your Spending account, you'll use your credit card and just use the money in the Spending account to pay it off. You may also choose to put all of your bills on a credit card, so the same applies using the money from the Bills account.

    Since adopting this budgeting method, I didn't have to spend any time managing my budget, and automatically saved $80k in 2 years on roughly $80k in income. That's about a 50% savings rate, and may not apply to everyone, but it's just to illustrate that I ramped up my savings rate by doing less work and having it work like a well-oiled machine. After slacking off of managing my budget (which always happened when trying to do a zero-based budget and then my finances would COMPLETELY derail) I checked back after a couple of months and everything was working perfectly without my intervention.

    Book recommendation: I Will Teach You To Be Rich by Ramit Sethi

    EDIT: formatting

    EDIT: I'll add tips below this:

    • One way to keep debit cards separate that I've done is to put a small white sticker on each card and label it (i.e. Spending, Groceries, etc)

    • You should NEVER use the debit card associated with the Bills account

    So I think some people are getting wrapped around the axle with having multiple checking/savings accounts and still think that you need to micromanage your money. This is a set-it-and-forget-it system where you set up your automatic transfers, and monitor relatively few account balances (there is no way to avoid having to look at your money), either by checking before you spend or receiving a daily text message (or both).

    The power is in the fact that if you slack off, which I did after hardcore budgeting for about a month, it still works. It doesn't rely on you.

    For people who have tried and tried to budget with limited success and ping pong between accounting for every penny and just total chaos, this method might be fore you. If you are on top of your finances and have something that works, just keep doing what you're doing.

    submitted by /u/Human_abstract1234
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    Western Union scam victims: it's confirmed, all countries are covered in US govt settlement

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 08:11 AM PST

    Great news. Western Union scams are rife in New Zealand in their various forms, and I read there was uncertainty on another thread (now archived) as to whether Canadians could get it - anyway anyone from any country can get a refund per this announcment. So if you're in Canada or Singapore or anywhere else, you have equal claim to any American applicant. Good luck if you were scammed!!

    The deadline is 12 Feb 2018

    submitted by /u/ShiaChristian
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    I'm 29 no degree and earn less then 20k a year

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 07:21 AM PST

    and I have about $500 of debt. How badly have I screwed up my 20's is it too late to be financially stable or will I be living paycheck to paycheck and fighting homelessness forever?

    submitted by /u/CtrlAltVictory
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    I believe Wells Fargo lost my money

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 05:38 PM PST

    I hope this is the right place to post this.

    On 01/05/18 at 12:10 AM, my fiance sent me $460.00 via Facebook messenger. It showed immediately in my bank account, and I was able to use some of the money for groceries.

    The next day, I received an email from my bank (Wells Fargo) saying my account balance was at $0. I checked my bank account, and the $460 he sent me that had been there the day before, was now gone. There is no record of it, and it doesn't show in my bank account at all.

    I called Wells Fargo customer service regarding this. I was told that there is no trace of it in my account (which I knew), so I asked them to dig into it more. They then came back and told me that other clients were having the same issue, and to give it until Monday the 8th before filing a claim.

    I waited till Monday and sent Wells Fargo a message through my account. My email was immediately answered by a representative, who pretty much told me it was my fault for depositing money through an ATM on a Friday. I let her know that I hadn't deposited any money, it had been sent to me. I did not receive a response back from this message.

    Today I went in and met with a banker. I brought my mom, as she can also see my account and has a Wells Fargo account. I told the banker everything that has happened, and that I haven't received my money back yet. I brought in my fiance's bank statement that shows the $460 had been taken out of his account, and I also printed off the payment tracking number I received from Facebook messenger when my fiance sent me the money. The banker called online customer service, who told her that they cannot locate the money and there isn't really anything they can do about it. The banker said to have my fiance file a claim with Facebook so he can get the money back and then send it to me. They also suggested that I had originally been scammed, or that he had been forced by a third party to send me this money. They are under the impression that Facebook took my money back, and that they are holding it. Wells Fargo does not believe that they may have lost this money.

    My fiance called his bank, who said that they cannot do anything about this since it has been processed. He opened a ticket with Facebook, but hasn't heard anything back. My mom suggested he file a fraudulant charge with Mastercard (the card he uses), to get the money back.

    I am unsure what other avenues I can use in this situation. I really need this money back, and so far everyone I have spoken to has made me feel stupid or like it was my fault. I am even more concerned, as I had had money taken from me by Wells Fargo years ago, that I didn't receive back until they had that lawsuit brought against them a year or two ago.

    Tl;dr: Wells Fargo lost my money and I don't know other options to get it back.

    submitted by /u/kaleidoscopeeyes907
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    Had to go to ER and thats when I learned I don't have "real" insurance. I have something referred to as "supplemental" insurance. Just got the bill. 20,000$... I am so ****ed

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 04:29 PM PST

    Apparently supplemental insurance is something people get on top of their regular insurance. So for a 19,500$ bill they pay, get this, 75$.

    I don't even know where to begin. I've been obsessive about my budget the last few years and paying down old credit card debt + student loans. I've made great progress but the BIG exception is not keeping some money in savings/investment accounts. I have ZERO wiggle room for emergencies like this so I guess my only choice is to ignore for awhile or put it credit cards (which I'd rather not do)

    I'm told you can negotiate with the hospital but is it even possible to get this down to 10K? I'm tempted to just ignore this for a year and then go to the hospital and beg them to let me give them 6K in cash and hope they accept it.

    submitted by /u/NewYearNewAccount_
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    Lifelock a scam? basically credit karma for a fee.

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 12:13 PM PST

    after signing up for the trial they charged me ten bucks for the month. Ok no big deal. I thought let me cancel. You cannot cancel online only by emailing the support team. 4 days later I get an email they do not offer refunds. So I cannot cancel online and they do offer refunds.?

    submitted by /u/FastRiley
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    Most expensive mistake

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 05:04 PM PST

    So today my dumbass hit a Mercedes while backing out of my driveway and screwed up one of their doors pretty good and i have enough saved to pay for the damages which is approximately 1,400-1,500 but it sucks that all that money saved is going to waste over my own stupidity :/ tough lesson learned and no one was hurt so i guess thats good news

    submitted by /u/lurker12378
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    I just bought a car a couple of days ago and signed a contract to finance with Toyota. They called me back today and said I need to come back and sign a new contract because Toyota won't honor the APR they quoted me and that I signed on. Is this legit?

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 12:49 PM PST

    The dealership did a credit check on me and came back with a 3.84% APR for my car loan. We signed the contract for the loan electronically and they gave me a print out of the contract. The contract says it's for 3.84% with Toyota's financing.

    Today the finance lady called me back and said I need to come back in and resign the contract (and this place is located over an hour away from where I live) because Toyota is not honoring the 3.84% that I signed on. They need to go with Wells Fargo now because Toyota is changing the % to 4.9.

    I asked her how can this be if I already signed the contract for the 3.84%. And she just said sometimes these things happen. Well, that's not a very good explanation.

    Can they change the terms of the loan after I've already signed? I just read all the small print and don't see anywhere that is says they can do this.

    The only thing I've seen that has to do with changing the loan says:

    1. Changes In This Contract Any change in the terms of this contract must be in writing and signed by the Creditor. No oral changes are binding.

    I'm really not sure what to do at this point. I'm a nervous wreck. When I was on the phone with her she was very pushy and I asked can she just mail me or fax me the forms to sign and she said no I need to sign in person. She just kept asking me when can I come back.

    My bf was with me when I bought the car and was handling negotiating and talking to them for me. I know that they know that he is leaving today to go back to CA for a few months and I'm wondering if they are trying to take advantage of the fact that if I come back I will not understand 100%.

    Sorry, for the wall of text.

    Edit: I just found this on another page:

    "If you are financing the car and the dealer intends to transfer your financing to a finance provider such as a bank, credit union, or other lender, your vehicle purchase depends on the finance provider's approval of your proposed retail installment sales contract.

    If your retail installment sales contract is approved without a change that increases the cost or risk to you or the dealer , your purchase can not be cancelled.

    If your retail installment sales contract is not approved the dealer will notify you verbally or in writing. You can then decide to pay for the vehicle in some other way or you or the dealer can cancel your purchase."

    So since the APR would go up unless I go through the bank they chose I can cancel right?

    submitted by /u/Unicornaday
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    Trying to curb my unnecessary spending with a no shopping challenge

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 06:49 AM PST

    After reading this article Sunday night about someone who did a year of no shopping I've decided to do a "no shopping month" from Jan 8 to Feb 8 (figured there's no time like the present!) and wanted to share in case anyone wanted to join!

    Some background: At the end of 2015, I started making 6 figures. I've closely watched my money my whole life and and reaching this salary at age 26 seemed like a dream come true. In 2016 I had medical issues, which actually caused me to spend less (thank goodness for my company's great health insurance) because I wasn't really shopping or going out a ton. 2017, though, was another story. I had a bit of a YOLO attitude (hey, I nearly died in 2016) and I felt like I was so good with saving money so who cares if I spent the extra on clothes, new hair products, kindle books, or whatever else I wanted. I max out my roth IRA, put 13% to my 401k, save $800 to various savings goals, and have 5x emergency fund. Plus, my boyfriend and I have no kids, no pets, don't really drink, and cook 80% of our meals at home (yikes, we sound boring, I swear we're not!) so if I want to buy new shoes then I will!!!

    But all that shopping bothered my frugal sensibilities. I stopped caring about sales because I can afford to buy things full priced. I stopped checking out books from the library because books aren't that expensive. I didn't increase my 401k % because I liked having the extra money in my bank account...to spend. And now I just have a bunch more stuff that I have to find space for. Also, for as much as I read and have other hobbies, I found myself online shopping out of boredom instead of doing those hobbies.

    So reading that article was the tipping point I needed to reign in my unnecessary spending. I'm starting out for one month but am hoping to extend this as long as possible.

    I made a list of things I can buy and things I can't buy. I'm sure some will think my "can" buy list is a little generous but I think this is reasonable for me and gets to the heart of why I'm doing this. I also included things that may not actually occur in the upcoming 30 days, but that I wanted to write down in the event I continue this challenge for longer.

    Things I CANNOT Buy: Clothes and shoes (can take something to be repaired if needed),jewelry/accessories, extra makeup, hair products, skin care (aka "oh I want to try this even though I have 5 similar ones at home"), books, electronics and gadgets, homeware and decor (including kitchenware)

    Things I CAN Buy: Groceries/food, toiletries, including hair products and makeup, once I run out, functional house items (toilet paper, trash bags, etc.) that have run out or need to be replaced, gas/car maintenance, gifts for others (birthdays, holidays), entertainment (travel, movie tickets, concerts), calligraphy paper/pens once I run out (this hobby gives me so much joy so don't want to deprive myself if my pens die or my pads fill up. but I also have tons extra!)

    I'm sure something will come up in the next 30 days that isn't on either list so I'm curious to see how I handle it. Let me know if you have any ideas or advice or questions!

    submitted by /u/sm0gs
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    Realtor had someone else apply for a mortgage in our names to check our credit

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 06:57 PM PST

    I also posted this over in legaladvice, wanted to check with you all too in case you know something on the mortgage side.

    Around a month ago, my spouse and I filled out an application to rent a home, and were told our credit would be pulled. We gave the realtor our information to run a credit check, which was then passed along to a woman associated with the realty who ran a credit check.

    Today we received a bunch of paperwork in the mail from a lending company congratulating us on applying for a mortgage. We contacted the loan officer, who confirmed that a mortgage application was filled in our names but there was no property attached to the loan.

    We then contacted the woman who ran the credit check, and she said that in order to pull our credit, she applied for a mortgage with this company. She said "don't worry, there's no property attached so it's not a REAL mortgage, and this is how all credit checks are run".

    Sounded fishy to us, so we went and contacted the credit bureaus to freeze our credit. Transunion then told us that someone had logged into the Transunion website as us and checked our credit reports - this was done on the same day that the mortgage application was filled out.

    So basically this woman applied for a mortgage to pull our credit, and then logged into Transunion pretending to be us and checked our credit.

    Setting aside the obviously illegal Transunion identity theft piece, we have two questions:

    1) Is this normal procedure/legal for someone to apply for a mortgage in order to check someone's credit? We obviously didn't authorize her to apply for a mortgage in our names.

    2) If not, any advice on what we should do?

    submitted by /u/stolentransunion
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    30 years old, job paying 28k-29k/year, 20k in saving, No degree / no debt

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 03:18 PM PST

    I'm very frugal, no car payment (own 2 cars)

    dont want kids as of now, but that might change later.

    should i get a different job? or should i just keep my job, which is safe and very low stress (which allow me to have a hobby), and somehow put my savings to work and invest?

    Can i keep living like this? or will i get fucked somewhere down the line?

    submitted by /u/workcomputer1
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    Canceling my NWM accounts

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 09:46 AM PST

    I just wanted you all to know that because of this subreddit I finally had the courage to go cancel my Northwestern Mutual accounts (NWM) and switch to Vanguard. Of course I got sucked into the snake oil salesman's trap but doing plenty of my own research and thanks to you guys I realized they were terrible investments and moved my money elsewhere. For those that are curious I had a Roth IRA with them that had like 5.6% sales charge and 0.76% expense ratio, a general investment that had like 1.26% expense ratio, and whole life insurance. I should have done more research upfront on all of it but I got out after only 6 months so I didn't lose much. Thank you all so much!

    submitted by /u/pbertke
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    16 yrs. old (US, NJ), have 2 jobs and need to know how to file for tax returns.

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 07:25 PM PST

    This is my first time ever trying to file for tax returns, and I currently have 2 jobs. I have no clue where to begin, and when I looked at my w2 form it says that federal taxes have not been taken out of my paychecks from 1 of my jobs (I don't know about the other, or if I am even supposed to fill out 2 w2 forms).

    Any sort of information would help :)

    (p.s sorry for formatting I'm pretty new to reddit -- also this is a throwaway account)

    submitted by /u/CluelessTaxesHelpPls
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    26years old and 12 hours until I become homeless with no funds. (california)

    Posted: 08 Jan 2018 09:12 PM PST

    I've had a roommate but I couldn't pay the rent so I had to pack my stuff. I had exactly 100 dollars but I had to get a room at a nearby hotel as it's been raining. I'm a sushi chef with almost 5 years of experience but I can't seem to find a job any where. I need help in knowing what organizations are available for homeless( or about to be) to find a shelter and a job. I was reading few posts and I should say I need alternatives of websites such as sykes, hopelink, and etc. I'm currently in southern California willing to go any where. And I have a 2 years old 40-50 lb female dog.. please. Thanks for your time reddit.

    Edit: And I don't have a car..

    Edit: as I wish to continue communicating with reddit, I decided to update my status through out my time. Maybe there are others in similar shoes who could use some readings and get hands on the provided information by amazing people on the Reddit.

    12:25PM I'm just sitting in front of the room I stayed over night. manager here said its ok to wait for my "ride" I'm trying to stay as long as possible to sell my laptop by using their wifi. Before I commit myself to go get help from organizations near me, I'll have go at least try to sell my laptop until last minute. I could sell it for at least 1500. I bought it for 2000 brand new less than a year ago. Then I could hop on a beater car. With that, my transportation and shelter problem will be solved temporarily. I'll find a job with time. I'm not too worried about that. shelter and transportation for work is. Hopefully I'll hear from someone soon. I've been getting spam texts only so far...

    Edit: 1:14PM. one of redditor reached out to me to provide a meal for me and my dog. Step by step here I go.

    Edit: 4:09PM. Time is passing by so slowly. I'm getting to impatient under this cold rainy weather. Maybe I should sell my laptop cheesiest possible so I can buy a beater car. Still on standby outside the inn I stayed at.

    submitted by /u/LikauNiz
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    Considering going car free to reduce monthly expenses (plus I hate owning a car). However, I'm underwater on the financing. Will it be worth it?

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 09:38 AM PST

    I had to get the car due to an accident and I wasn't really thinking rationally at the time. I financed the car on a sub-prime loan and I currently owe a bit more than I originally financed the car for (~$6,300) and I've been making payments on it for about a year (at a horrendous APR of around 20%).

    I got a job in June that allows me to work remotely / from home, so I have very little need for the car anymore. I can Lyft/Uber, bicycle, or take the local commuter train (it runs from Miami to West Palm Beach at very low cost, I live in Ft Lauderdale).

    I've made some appointments with Carmax and other local dealers to get the car appraised, but I'll likely still end up having to pay off the remaining $2-3K on the loan (if I'm lucky).

    Any other car free people been in a similar situation? Did you just eat the cost and go car-free? If so, has it been worth it?

    TL;DR I'm underwater on a car I stupidly financed at a horrible APR about a year ago, and I want to offload it to reduce my expenses. I work at home / remotely, so I wouldn't be losing much in transportation.

    submitted by /u/CaptainKyloStark
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    Unemployed with bleak prospects- What to do with €10,000? (Ireland)

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 05:05 PM PST

    I (26F) unfortunately made a bit of a mess of my life after leaving school and consequently am long-term unemployed and on social welfare. I have a few minor qualifications and am trying to get my life on track but so far have not had any luck finding work, presumably due to my poor employment record. I've done a few fixed-term work placements but none of them have lead to anything.

    I'm due to receive a lump sum of around €10,000 from a relative soon and I have no idea what to do with it. I have no debts or children but neither do I have any other savings or current source of income other than social welfare, which just about covers my rent and living expenses. Obviously I don't want to live off the state but I'm becoming increasingly worried that I'll never get a job or be able to support myself financially. I want to use this lump sum in the most constructive way possible to hopefully get out of this rut someday if I don't manage to find work.

    As far as a long-term goal goes, I'd like to someday own a little bit of land where I can establish a smallholding and ideally support myself. I know this seems like a bit of a pipe dream at the moment but I'm seriously considering trying to buy a bit of land and just work my way up to that from scratch somehow.

    I have very little understanding of finance so any advice on how to sensibly use this money would be greatly appreciated. I hope I'm posting this to the right subreddit, if not please point me in the right direction. This is my first Reddit post and I'm quite nervous about it so please be kind. Thanks very much in advance.

    submitted by /u/FarewellMissCarousel
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    Early Onset Dementia - Approximate Cost of Care

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 06:06 PM PST

    Hello,

    I apologize as this may be too narrow a question for /r/personalfinance, but I've always found this community very knowledgeable and supportive. I've recently found out my mother (late 50s) has been diagnosed with frontotemporal dementia. For those unfamiliar with the particulars, she is progressively losing high-level cognitive functioning and will, from what i understand thus far, be rendered completely incapable. The dementia has progressed at such a rate that in-home care will be a likelihood within the next couple of years, with 24 hour care not too far off on the horizon.

    Given that he diligently worked and saved all his life to do so, I would like for my father to be able to retire as he had planned. This is despite his current position that he will now never retire, and does not want this diagnosis to affect mine nor my siblings' plans for the future. I'm unfamiliar with the costs involved with dementia care and thus am unable to appeal to him with anything other than emotion. I'd like to be able to understand the financial impact of this diagnosis and frankly currently have no idea.

    Among other costs, I'm curious to get anyone's personal experience on both 1) live in care while my father is at work (~45 hours a week) as well as 2) full-time care. I'm also curious to know what additional costs average out at, medical bills and other expenses that have as of yet not occurred to me. I have googled but have found very generic answers, so would be curious to know if anyone has firsthand experience or knowledge that could be more tailored to my specific situation.

    I am in my mid-late 20's, make around $140K/year, and to give an idea of trajectory with my current employer can reasonably expect that to be in the low $200K range by 30. I save about 70% of my after tax salary. My current net worth is approx $300K, $80K of which is tied up in retirement accounts, the rest is highly liquid. I have no debts, do not own a home, and am single with no children. I appreciate your advice.

    submitted by /u/CluelessThrowaway90
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    Questions about credit before home purchase

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 01:29 PM PST

    I would appreciate some advice. I'm planning to buy a house (first house) within the next ~2-4 months. I have a great down payment saved up, with extra cash reserve. My credit score hovers between 715-730. I've already been pre-qualified, etc.

    1) I just got an email from my Discover credit card. If I don't make a purchase within the next month, they are going to close it for inactivity. It is NOT my oldest card, and the credit line is a small fraction of my overall available credit. I clearly don't use the card, but I've heard it's bad to close an account while you're trying to buy a house. Should I make some small purchase to keep it open, let them close it, or close it myself?

    2) I have a ding on my credit for a $1k medical bill. It is the only negative mark on my report. The item is about 3 years old. I've disputed it and it says so on my credit report. I've resisted paying it out of principal (long story) but now I'm wondering if I should pay it if paying it will get the negative mark removed. Is it too late now to even try? Will removing it impact my credit score enough to make it worth paying? If I do pay it, what are the odds I can negotiate it down?

    Thank you in advance.

    submitted by /u/GemJoon
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    I've been poached by another company, (how) can I use it as leverage?

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 11:55 AM PST

    So I work in a position that's pretty low down in my office, but pretty important. I entered it with no training and have done fairly well. Recently, another office sought me out and offered me a job. Obviously I asked for more than I make now but I was a bit naïve and lowballed myself.

    I would prefer to stay at my current job if I can - it's a bit tricky because one of my bosses is a mega asshole and the other one is a bit grouchy but generally really wonderful to work for. If I do end up leaving, I want to maintain a positive relationship with the latter if possible.

    Unfortunately since said grouchy-but-nice boss is out of town, I have to tell him this over email.

    I guess my question is - is there a way to tactfully tell my boss over email that I've been offered more money elsewhere, and make it clear that I will stay if offered even more money at my current position?

    submitted by /u/forestjock
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    27years old, just relocated to a major city and want to upgrade my lifestyle within reason

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 05:33 PM PST

    Hi r/personalfinance,

    I just turned 27 years old and make $105,000/year. I just relocated to a major US city from a small town. While I was living in a small town for 2 years, I took advantage of the opportunity and lived a fairly inexpensive lifestyle. I drove an $8000 car and lived in an $900/month apartment. During that time I was able to max out my Roth 401K and my Roth IRA and grow my savings account. I feel like I've done well for myself so far and I want to upgrade my lifestyle, have fun, and make myself more presentable. Specifically I'd like to purchase a nice car and furnish my new apartment($1300/month rent).

    My problem is I don't really have any furniture. I've basically got a bed and a cheap coffee table. furnishing an apartment can be expensive, especially if I want to buy furniture that will last. Also, I don't really know how much of a car I can afford, I've been thinking $20-30k. I spoke on the phone with a financial planner who kinda scared me. He said I should have at least $25k cash as an emergency fund and I only have about $26k currently. I'd have more but I already maxed my IRA for 2018. Should I be worried? Am I being too greedy with the car and apartment? I'd previously considered $15k to be my emergency fund. Is it that big of a deal since most of my money is in Roth accounts and can be withdrawn penalty-free in case of a serious emergency?

    My financial picture: ~$26k cash ~$100k in Roth IRA and Roth 401k ~$20k in taxable account I never carry a balance on my credit cards and I own my car(estimated $4.5k trade in value)

    submitted by /u/hanabeni
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    I have been homeless for over a year and I will soon have more money than I know how to handle. How do I keep myself from messing this up?

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 05:17 PM PST

    I am currently homeless (living in my car) and about to receive a check for $855,000. I have been researching the basics, including the info on the side bar, but it doesn't seem like most of this advice is relevant to me, because I (obviously) want to pick myself up off the ground and find a home so I can begin to live my "normal" day to day. Putting most of this money in an account that I can't touch for 6-12 months just isn't ideal for someone who's without a roof over their head. I would need to furnish a home and I honestly wouldn't know how to estimate my potential living expenses. Any advice is appreciated.

    submitted by /u/throwaway3719582
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    Ebay Collectors

    Posted: 09 Jan 2018 06:46 PM PST

    Hello,

    I buy bicycles from places like craigslist and sell them on Ebay for a small profit. I do not make much money doing this, but have lots of bike tools and worked at a shop when I was younger. It is a hobby of mine. I report my marginal hobby income every year and pay taxes on it as appropriate, determined by my tax accountant.

    Recently I got fed up with Ebay's fees, and have been engaging in less than perfect behavior in terms of following their policies. I had a bike listed for >$2,000 which I had someone message me directly about, and I replied to them asking to reach out to me directly on email. Ebay caught my first message after sending it, revoked the message to the potential buyer, and warned me that I might be charged a final value fee on this item just for offering to sell it outside of Ebay. I ignored this and one subsequent warning from them about the same, and continued to message people directly who inquired about the bike, even offering small discounts on their purchase if they would do it directly through PayPal and bypass Ebay -- discounts which would still be far less than the 10% Ebay charges. I also list my bikes for sale in free places like Craigslist and Facebook. This bike that people on Ebay kept messaging me about was sold through Facebook, forcing me to remove the ad from Ebay as the item was no longer for sale. Long story short, Ebay billed me the final value fee and maintains I pay it despite my submission of proof that it was sold without their help, and would have sold on Facebook just the same had it not even been listed on Ebay. Now Ebay wants $240 of my dollars, which I ignored, and my account is in collections.

    My main priority is that I do not want this to affect my perfect credit. Secondarily, I truly feel that although I violated Ebay's policies, I did not do so in a way which should incur a $240 fee from them. I got a letter from AIC, their collection Agency, and have had a few calls from them as well which I have ignored. I got their letter 12/12/17 and it is 1/9/18. I know I have 30 days to dispute, which I can do over the phone. I want to know what my best option is for settling this given my main priority of not affecting my credit, and my secondary priority of not wanting to pay them in full. Should I dispute and they will not pursue? Should I offer $10/month for 2 years? Should I see if $30 will get rid of the debt for good?

    I live in NC if this makes a difference. Thanks for the help!

    TL;DR: In collections for Ebay for policy violation, best way to resolve? Live in NC, still within 30 day window for dispute of debt validity option. Thanks!

    submitted by /u/Crippetoe
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