Financial Independence How to not come off like a dishonest bum when talking FIRE with a prospective partner |
- How to not come off like a dishonest bum when talking FIRE with a prospective partner
- Increasing hourly wages
- Daily FI discussion thread - Thursday, December 23, 2021
- We all know about "First World Problems". What are your "FIRE Problems"?
- Daily FI discussion thread - Wednesday, December 22, 2021
- Weekly Self-Promotion Thread - December 22, 2021
| How to not come off like a dishonest bum when talking FIRE with a prospective partner Posted: 23 Dec 2021 10:41 AM PST I keep seeing a lot of hand wringing where people on this sub are either a) imagining that people who are leery of someone in their 30s/40s not working are vapid, shallow creatures or b) experiencing a deep fear of gold diggers. Having grown up in poverty, surrounded by poverty, I'd like to explain what is probably going on with the first concern. Being able to consider FIRE makes the vast majority of people on this sub in the top ~10% of earners. The median income in the United States is 36,000 dollars (ETA: 36k not 31k when adjusted for todays dollars src:https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N. I used 2019 numbers because I don't trust any changes covid has had on the market to be sustained or have changed anything for most people in poverty) . In most metros of any size, that is barely enough to make ends meet. Most people on this sub consider 1m, 4% SWR lean fire. In lean, barely sustainable retirement, you will make more than over half of the population of the US. Okay, now think about generational poverty with me. What does that look like for most people? Good jobs that were lost when an industry collapsed. Low employability due to race or language skills. With the really unlucky, chronic lack of work due to health issues or addiction problems, along with the contingent burdens of those within a family. For some people, chronic unemployment also meant people losing hope, and to all appearances sitting on their ass and collecting a gov't check, jettisoning any hope for a more stable future, in part because one wasn't available. Keep in mind that this also means most people have not seen a comfortable retirement, don't know how to plan for the long term with the stock market, and if they're planning for retirement they're probably doing employer contributions and not thinking about it too much past that. Now imagine that the only times you've seen someone not work are because there was a major economic collapse in your area, they were being discriminated against, they were chronically ill, or they're an addict. Sometimes, you've seen chronic unemployment devolve into economic dependence on welfare programs, addiction issues, and a lost sense of purpose and dignity. You are one of the 50%+ of Americans who is either currently living in full view of these issues, or the even greater percentage that has at some point. You meet someone who seems nice on a dating app. You go to dinner. They hedge about their work. They won't tell you what they do. Or if they do, they vaguely say they don't work anymore. Coming from the above circumstances, what are you thinking? Assuming that most of this sub is interested in people who are likewise driven, responsible, high-achieving people, does skepticism or outright fear seem shallow, vapid, or stupid? Can you blame people for wanting to avoid the pitfalls they've seen unemployment create in their lives or communities? Now a lot if people will say they can't clarify or talk about it more clearly because they're concerned about option b) gold diggers. An interesting objection. If you aren't hitting FIRE with a partner, you basically have two options:
or 2) Someone who is delightful enough that you don't mind supporting them with your assets rather than watch them work to 65, again so you can enjoy the RE lifestyle together. In the first case you are looking for the same thing that a gold digger might be. You are mutually gold digging each other, get over it. Or, more generously and probably accurately, you are both looking for people who are as capable of achieving the same lifestyle you are accustomed to as you are. There's nothing morally wrong with that, but it's hypocritical to judge others for doing the same. In the second case, just use your damn instincts. Forget about weeding out the gold diggers by not telling them you were able to retire early because you have Xmil in assets. You will be able to tell by their behavior. If you are already worried about this, you will catch the warning signs within a few dates, you're not going to get 'caught' or 'tricked'. In being honest, you also solve the first issue- which is that likewise driven, stable, high achieving people won't have every alarm bell in the book going off when you tell them you don't work, or you're 'consulting' but then never seem to be busy. As for how to talk about it, just be honest when asked by a prospective partner. Can't believe this is advice to a bunch of grown people, but it really is a pillar of healthy relationships. An example script "Well, I was very successful in X industry, and aggressively saved my income. I'm no Warren Buffet, but I earn enough from my investments to maintain the same lifestyle I did while I was working. I know that's a weird thing to able to do at my age, but I can talk you through how that works some other time if you like. Anyway, I no longer have a 9 to 5 but I stay busy doing X, Y, and Z nowadays." There. Done. If anyone is wondering, yes, I've talked to every person I've dated about FIRE, and no, it has never been an issue, regardless of relative income. Your issue isn't FIRE, it's how you talk (or don't talk) about it. Gain some perspective. Have some empathy. Be honest with yourself and with others. It'll be fine. ETA: Lying is a bad foundation to a relationship. Lying by omission or saying things that are only technically true is also bad and has the same effect. Can't believe I'm adding this after the fact, but apparently this isn't obvious. C'mon y'all. [link] [comments] |
| Posted: 23 Dec 2021 09:20 AM PST I drove by a McDonald's the other day and they had a sign out saying they were hiring $18/h positions. (EDIT: McDonald's is just a big name example. Many other entry level jobs are seeing similar wage increases right now. I would not choose to work at McDonald's as my post FI side gig, but I could see myself being a part time crossing guard, lifeguard, bank teller... etc.) Higher wages for entry level jobs might make it less stressful pulling the trigger on FIRE. On the other hand cost of goods may increase accordingly, decreasing the purchasing power of your FIRE savings. I believe many people point to data that shows increasing minimum wage doesn't cause inflation, but to be honest I've never looked at it closely and even if I did I'm not sure I would be able to analyze correctly. To me right now I look at $18/h and think "that could be good side money if I wanted to work part time post FIRE to minimize posibility of failure while also keeping some responsibily/structure/accountability in my life." Anyway, just a little opinion piece. Happy Holidays everyone. [link] [comments] |
| Daily FI discussion thread - Thursday, December 23, 2021 Posted: 23 Dec 2021 02:02 AM PST Please use this thread to have discussions which you don't feel warrant a new post to the sub. While the Rules for posting questions on the basics of personal finance/investing topics are relaxed a little bit here, the rules against memes/spam/self-promotion/excessive rudeness/politics still apply! Have a look at the FAQ for this subreddit before posting to see if your question is frequently asked. Since this post does tend to get busy, consider sorting the comments by "new" (instead of "best" or "top") to see the newest posts. [link] [comments] |
| We all know about "First World Problems". What are your "FIRE Problems"? Posted: 22 Dec 2021 09:48 AM PST I'll give my very recent example to kick it off. I'm basically at my FIRE number right now. I've only been nervous about pulling the trigger because the market has been so inflated. I've recently been switched to a new team at work with a new boss and frankly I don't think it's a great fit. I planned to give it a chance for a few months then just quit if I'm not loving it. This week my new boss has been bugging me about getting on the phone so we can "chat". I was secretly hoping she'd tell me it wasn't working out and they were going to lay me off with a generous severance package. Instead she told me that on top of all other pay and bonuses the company is giving me $50,000 a year in stock going forward that vests over 4 years. That last thing I wanted was golden handcuffs. But man does it feel shitty to complain about getting a $50,000 bonus... EDIT:The details don't matter overmuch to the point of the story but it's coming up a lot so I'll clarify. Every year I get a $50k bonus that's paid out over 4 years. So if everything worked out as expected the years would look like this:
etc... My current compensation is only about $140k so this would be a big addition for me if I stuck around longer term which I'm not expecting to. [link] [comments] |
| Daily FI discussion thread - Wednesday, December 22, 2021 Posted: 22 Dec 2021 02:02 AM PST Please use this thread to have discussions which you don't feel warrant a new post to the sub. While the Rules for posting questions on the basics of personal finance/investing topics are relaxed a little bit here, the rules against memes/spam/self-promotion/excessive rudeness/politics still apply! Have a look at the FAQ for this subreddit before posting to see if your question is frequently asked. Since this post does tend to get busy, consider sorting the comments by "new" (instead of "best" or "top") to see the newest posts. [link] [comments] |
| Weekly Self-Promotion Thread - December 22, 2021 Posted: 22 Dec 2021 02:00 AM PST Self-promotion (ie posting about projects/businesses that you operate and can profit from) is typically a practice that is discouraged in /r/financialindependence, and these posts are removed through moderation. This is a thread where those rules do not apply. However, please do not post referral links in this thread. Use this thread to talk about your blog, talk about your business, ask for feedback, etc. If the self-promotion starts to leak outside of this thread, we will once again return to a time where 100% of self-promotion posts are banned. Please use this space wisely. Link-only posts will be removed. Put some effort into it. [link] [comments] |
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