Financial Independence Does the viability of the FIRE movement depend on people who are the antithesis of what we try to be? |
- Does the viability of the FIRE movement depend on people who are the antithesis of what we try to be?
- Daily FI discussion thread - November 30, 2018
- Weekly FI Frugal Friday thread - November 30, 2018
- Early Retirees & Affordable Healthcare (Less than $400/Month for Our Family)
- Suggestions for $250k 34 disabled veteran with no dependents
- Are FIRE'ees productive members of society? Indisputably. Here's why.
- FI but not the way i planned. A cautionary story.
- People who have RE, is it less fulfilling if your partner wants to continue to work?
- MarketWatch with examples of FIRE gone wrong... but it's not a fair characterization
- [FEEDBACK] Where do financially independent young adults live/hang out? I am looking to surround myself with those people. My ultimate goal is to make side income yet the typical avenues like real estate, stocks, drop shipping, etc. are boring and heavily populated.
- Unfortunately invested in ROTH for many many years
| Posted: 30 Nov 2018 12:08 PM PST I have two major thoughts here in my philosophizing about FIRE. That said, I am pursuing it 100% either way - this is more for discussion.
I can't shake the feeling that this only works because we are a minority in society. [link] [comments]  |
| Daily FI discussion thread - November 30, 2018 Posted: 30 Nov 2018 03:08 AM PST Please use this thread to have discussions which you don't feel warrant a new post to the sub. While the Rules for posting questions on the basics of personal finance/investing topics are relaxed a little bit here, the rules against memes/spam/self-promotion/excessive rudeness/politics still apply! Have a look at the FAQ for this subreddit before posting to see if your question is frequently asked. Since this post does tend to get busy, consider sorting the comments by "new" (instead of "best" or "top") to see the newest posts. [link] [comments]  |
| Weekly FI Frugal Friday thread - November 30, 2018 Posted: 30 Nov 2018 03:09 AM PST Please use this thread to discuss how amazingly cheap you are. How do you keep your costs low? How do become frugal without taking it to the extremes of frupidity? What costs have you realized could be cut from your life without pain? Use this weekly post to discuss Frugality in general. While the Rules for posting questions on the basics of personal finance/investing topics are more relaxed here, the rules against memes/spam/self-promotion/excessive rudeness/politics still apply! Since this post does tend to get busy, consider sorting the comments by "new" (instead of "best" or "top") to see the newest posts. [link] [comments]  |
| Early Retirees & Affordable Healthcare (Less than $400/Month for Our Family) Posted: 30 Nov 2018 03:58 PM PST In case you don't know the ACA can be very beneficial for the FIRE community. Regardless of your politics the subsidies and rules take a lot of worry out of healthcare for our family (Only $400/month for the Silver Plan) Probably one of the biggest questions for early retirees is how can someone retire early and afford healthcare in the United States. This YouTube video ( https://youtu.be/pApBuNJZflU ) addresses the question by describing the Affordable Care Act and how it can be used to significantly reduce healthcare costs for early retirees. 3 scenarios are provided: Single person, married couple, and family of four. [link] [comments]  |
| Suggestions for $250k 34 disabled veteran with no dependents Posted: 30 Nov 2018 03:13 PM PST I was discharged from the military in 09 and had a disability claim which recently was approved after multiple appeals, the backpay was around $225k and i have about $50k that i have been saving prior I will be receiving around $3500k per mth total with SSDI and VA, right now i have everything in savings accounts getting 2% as i am very risk averse, i will also be moving to Mexico soon and i estimate my annual expenses of around $15k to drop 50% or more since i live a pretty minimal lifestyle and cook most meals When i do move to Mexico i plan on starting an animal sanctuary since i have a large chunk of savings, i also plan on getting a 3 bedroom rental and putting the other 2 on airbnb Eventually i plan on buying a house in CA and renting it out to pay the mortgage I dont have any tax or retirement accounts as i became disabled very young and until recently was living on around $15k annually of SSDI and a lower VA payment I dont have to worry about medical insurance as its free through the VA even overseas Any suggestions for my particular situation? I did post in leanfire, but a person stated my scenario wasnt lean [link] [comments]  |
| Are FIRE'ees productive members of society? Indisputably. Here's why. Posted: 30 Nov 2018 08:30 AM PST The accusation frequently gets leveled that FIRE'ees aren't productive members of society. It takes many forms: we're selfish, we aren't giving back, we're idle, we're mooches, and so on. That accusation is false. What follows are talking points you can use to demonstrate its falsity whenever you feel the need. But before I get to the list, here's a thought on tone. It's tragic when people who've just learned of the FIRE movement dismiss it out-of-hand. Our movement brings along principles and techniques that can benefit them greatly in matters of personal finance. Well…I think when dealing with differences of opinion it's better to persuade than argue. Argument makes people defensive, which only further entrenches them in their positions. So while we may not be able to change people's minds about pursuing FIRE, that shouldn't be our primary goal. I think our primary goal oughtta be helping them take control of their finances—even when they impugn our character. As some of you know, I flew off the handle when Suze Orman bashed the FIRE movement and then pivoted. I argued rather than attempting to persuade. While it felt good to reply to her in kind, and while I stand by my criticism of her logic, my approach was less than ideal. I let my ego and my love for the FIRE community get in the way of what I was really trying to accomplish. So when we're dealing with these accusations, let's focus on commonalities rather than differences. That's the spirit in which I offer this list. /sermon Here are some ways we try to be productive. *Investing in the US economy is good, yes? We do, and heavily…thus helping to create jobs, develop new technologies, etc. *Responsible money management is good, yes? We advocate for it by motivating, encouraging, teaching, and living by example. Sometimes we do so by sharing our knowledge and experience; other times by admitting our ignorance and mistakes and being willing to learn. We admit we aren't experts and there isn't just one path to FIRE. *Encouraging others when they're down and out is good, yes? We act as a support community for anyone encountering obstacles on the road to financial health. *Volunteering our time to worthy causes is good, yes? We do, and in many ways. *Participating in local politics is good, yes? Many of us—but admittedly not all—do. *Managing down participation in toxic consumer behavior is good, yes? We try to refrain from such behavior, including conspicuous consumption funded with credit card debt. *Practicing self-discipline and frugality and other such "societal virtues" is good, yes? We do, or at least try to. *Reducing environmental harm is good, yes? We do, again by trying to refrain from toxic consumer behavior. *Raising children to do all of the above is good, yes? We do. Furthermore: we're not drug addicts and we don't abuse our kids. We make sure they have warm clothes and proper nutrition and good educations–and the support they otherwise need to become productive members of society themselves. That's it. edit: couple of words. [link] [comments]  |
| FI but not the way i planned. A cautionary story. Posted: 30 Nov 2018 12:05 PM PST So i am writing this to say thank you to the FI community in hopes to give back to those who helped me. To those who helped me even when i was a stubborn rude ass. I will do my best to keep this short. It won't be. So when i was in my mid 20's doing what mid 20's people do try and figure out life. I came across mrmoneymustashs website. It looked like some sort of click bait link back then because i was googling ways to make money. Something about a guy who is 30 and retired it was like a small town newspaper article. Being 26 i think at the time i was like okay sign me up. I then spent the following 8 months consuming knowledge this is library books on everything from corporate tax law down to frugal living tips. Don't forget to throw a dash of housing stuff in there. I spent the following four years saving every dime automating everything in my life. I went with the nuclear option. I sold my house which i owed 40k on. I sold my brand new SUV. I came out ahead 12k homeless and carless. I purchased a used 3000$ 2000Honda civic and spent a good deal of time mechanic shopping this is more or less how i operated prior to the new SUV so this was not uncommon territory to paint a clear picture of difficulty for me. Lets pause and talk about motivations. 1. MMM's motivations about becoming FI to be a super dad seemed to me to be the most badass thing. As i was raised without a dad. So this quickly became a life goal of mine to be FI prior to having children. 2. I currently worked in the Prison system in the States. IF i have to elaborate continue reading if not drop down to the next paragraph. I will say believing you are invincible and doing dangerous things on a daily basis is a young mans game. I like to call them Burn out jobs. No you pot heads. I mean jobs that take so much out of you that no matter how strong a person you are they will eventually beat you down. i think of the list looking something like Prison Guard Cop Fire Fighter(they don't get paid shit) Underwater Welder loggers some parts of the military oil riggers ect. Listen some jobs no matter how much they pay become not worth it. So have a back up plan. a FI plan =) Then i moved into a 1 bed 1 bath efficiency apartment which only added on 2 miles to my drive to work. It was near a college and next to a bar which was noisy. I had a plan i was in there for exactly the two years i said i would be. While i was there and working over time at the jail. I also worked for my landlord showing apartments this netted me 20$ for every one i got rented out. Looking back a lot of little side jobs like this under the table stuff really provided my beer and dates money. Other good ideas here. Donating blood ect. completing online surveys writing reviews for products like per word. At this time period i managed to get my expenses to 350$ a month. The following two years i worked a few hundred hours of over time and saved every dime. my base wage at the time was around 67k after side jobs i cleared 200k in two years. Great i was rich but not wealthy. I was also lonely all i did was work. I started dating again after i had gotten burned awhile back. This was a common theme in my life. So i asked my sister about it and she said well look at the types of people you date and look where you go to meet them. Prior to this it was bars clubs ect.... (omg what does all this have to do with FI OMG shut up. alright i know i am almost done.) This time i went to a charity dog cancer walk and met my now wife. Seriously when choosing a partner for life when thinking about FI think more about who that person is and who they will become then how they look how much money they have who they are now ect. My wife when i met her was in debt not frugal ect. She did have a keen mind though and a thirst to learn interesting things. a nice butt doesn't hurt either. Anyways look i'll just briefly touch on this cause i don't want to get too involved. I've been away from this forum for awhile i came back to some controversy over prenups. Listen people when you get married you work every day to make the person you are with a better person. Some of the time that means making yourself a better person that's all the more i'll say on the topic. So with my new found monies i proceeded to look for alternative routes to earning money to expedite the FI process mostly due to the job hate. I was doing this while trying to maintain a relationship. manage work friends enemies and frenemies. work hundreds of hours of overtime. This was the time in my life i thought i could learn how to manage own rental properties. Here is my opinion about rentals. If you are not truly passionate about real estate meaning if you don't want to wake up look at properties run numbers on them manage tenants or manage property managers then buy a REIT if you need more real estate exposure. After you control for time invested if you don't love it it's not worth it. I am not saying it's not possible even a good and likely way for you to achieve FIRE and beyond. It's just not for me. I've studied it and feel i have a strong command of the subject so feel free to ask. After a lot of hard work and a fair amount of luck. I would say i broke even on my property. I flipped it after we left as i decided not become a landlord. The surprise at the end of the work was getting back what i would have paid in mortgage. That's just a wonderful feeling. That's as close to i'd say i got in terms of profit. About halfway though the 3 years we spent at this place that's when all the ugliness started to happen. The thing about it is it creeps up on you. First it was just panic attacks. They started slow then it was twice week. A lot of other little things. Tired all the time. I just quit having time to work out. My workout became walking the dog and hoping for something healthy for dinner. I was super agitated all the time. Started accusing people of doing things to me they didn't do. A few fights. Mostly road rage stuff. I never got caught. My temper was getting bad as well as my moods sleeping habits. super paranoid all the time. So it was PTSD and two other anxiety disorders which is what i was diagnosed with. A few other serious psychological symptoms occurred once it caused me to drive off the road. It wasn't much longer after that a psych panel review. I was medically retired. Fire yay right guys? So there is a lot of other stuff that happened. Things i can't discuss because of legalese. Some things witnessed on the job lets just say you can be doing something for years it then bam! It can effect you all at once. I always considered myself just a unstoppable force strong healthy good immune system it's no shit after too much trauma your mind will say hey i need a break. So when they forced me out i had NW of around 320k. The job gave me an amount of severance plus a certain amount of a month think enough to pay the bills. Also my medical is covered. Great I've gotten what i wanted finally. I also have nightmares everynightish. scared to go out in big crowds in public. some memory loss. lots of other little things to live with. I also have some bad blood between me and my now spouse before we figured out what was going on and were able to start treating it and being aware of it before it happens. I was never physically abusive but i was a giant asshole more times then i'd care to admit. i always justified it to myself saying i will provide for my wife(she didn't know i felt this way at the time) and my future children so this will all be worth it. Knowing what i know about money investing and such now i don't know if i'd still take the job. Just stopping to think about it right now though the first thing that comes over me is greed. So now you know a little about how it happened. If you want to ask more about that stuff feel free i'd rather not talk to much in detail though. on to the nuts and bolts stuff you guys like. So here are all the tricks i know. some will be like listed others may be a small paragraph. i am going to just keep talking till i can't think of any more. So our NW is currently around mid six figures that is minus what we owe on the mortgage/student loans. Which we have chosen to keep because of good rate on the mortgage all that's left is about 98k at 2.5. My wife has 30k in student loan debt. It was put on deferment because her work offered to pay for her to go for her masters. So we are keeping that also. That's it. My medical pension pays the monthly bill plus some left over. We are most likely going to invest instead of pay off mortgage due to the security of the pension but i don't know. So here's some tips. A Warning not everyone is me. So not all of my advice will work. Also i am not responsible for any stupid shit you do. another warning i made 40k when i started my FI journey i made 84k when i was done. Most of my tips are for people who make 40k or less. 1.Setting goals. Write the 20 most important things to you on paper circle the five most important do anything else besides these and you are wasting your time. number them in order. If you want to achieve FI if you make less then 40k a year your list should look something like this. 1. Become FI. 2. Be Financial independent. 3 FIRE 4. Consider RE. 5 Quit working because you have to.
Bad food is poison. don't buy half priced poison. too extreme? apply this line of reasoning to everything booze food ect.
9 go outside or basement look for your utility meters. If it's turning you have something using gas power electric ect. As an experiment lets go with electric. Go though your house turn everything off till the meter stops moving. Do the same thing for all utilities. Once done see what you miss having on. The goal is to get your usage as close to zero as possible. If you need the old this is good for the environment push have at it. it also saves you money.
Okay so going to put this up feel free to shoot your questions or comments. I Hope this helps someone. edit for grammar and such too lazy. [link] [comments]  |
| People who have RE, is it less fulfilling if your partner wants to continue to work? Posted: 29 Nov 2018 07:24 PM PST I've known I wanted to FIRE (without knowing it was an actual thing) since I was a teen. I find working and the office environment to be a huge drag. My husband likes to work. He's said that if we ever won some insane, never work again lottery he'd still roll into work every day. I told my husband I'd like to retire in my 50s and he's on board with that but won't join me. Will it become boring? I wouldn't travel without him. In fact. I don't actually like traveling TBH. We don't have family where we live and there are only a few nice months. Although, during those nicer months I could garden all day and be happy as a clam. Has anyone done this? [link] [comments]  |
| MarketWatch with examples of FIRE gone wrong... but it's not a fair characterization Posted: 29 Nov 2018 07:13 PM PST I really feel for some of these people. The guy with autistic twins and a wife that passed at a young age is in a tough spot for no reason of his own. The same is true for the other medical related issues. I would like to think that even with these conditions they are better off having their savings and a cost conscious lifestyle. In that regard, it's still a huge benefit even if it doesn't lead to early retirement. Many of the other examples just seemed to have poor plans, and that isn't the fault of the FIRE movement. It largely reads like another hit piece. I can't understand what is so offensive to journalists about wanting to be cost conscious and being a smart investor. [link] [comments]  |
| Posted: 30 Nov 2018 02:39 PM PST [FEEDBACK] Where do financially independent young adults live/hang out? I am looking to surround myself with those people. My ultimate goal is to make side income yet the typical avenues like real estate, stocks, drop shipping, etc. are boring and heavily populated. [link] [comments]  |
| Unfortunately invested in ROTH for many many years Posted: 29 Nov 2018 08:23 PM PST I have read through a ton of post on this subreddit to include Mr. Money Mustache's material as well. With that said, I feel like I have made a mistake. I have been investing quite a bit of money, but it looks like I should have been putting it in a traditional bucket instead of a roth. Have I made a mistake? From what I read on the roth conversation ladder the money has to start in a 401K traditional -> IRA traditional -> IRA Roth. Am I still able to do something like this with the money I have? Should I start investing all of my money into traditional instead of roth? Thanks guys. [link] [comments]  |
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